this post was submitted on 04 Apr 2024
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[–] [email protected] 224 points 7 months ago (29 children)

This particular homeowner is baffled that anyone would buy a washing machine that needs an internet connection. I'm all for smart appliances, but a smart washing machine is a solution in search of a problem.

[–] [email protected] 64 points 7 months ago (8 children)

I guess it can notify you via your cell phone when a load is done. I could see that having value.

[–] [email protected] 103 points 7 months ago (3 children)

Mine plays a loud jingle when it's done, which seems to be enough for me.

[–] [email protected] 72 points 7 months ago (6 children)

Yup. There are two situations here:

  • I'm in my house and can hear the sound
  • I'm not at my house and don't care when it finishes

If I'm at home and won't hear the sound for some reason, I'll just set an alarm on my phone. My washing machine tells me how long it'll take, so there's no guesswork here.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 7 months ago (3 children)

My washing machine tells me how long it'll take, so there's no guesswork here.

Washing machines exist that are smarter than just running a fixed program. They adjust the program, and thus duration, based om how dirty the clothes are. The same goes for dryers that look at the actual humidity of the clothes to determine if they’re finished.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Sure, and if I'm off by a few minutes, that's totally fine. I honestly don't need to know the moment my clothes are done, it can wait 20-30 minutes usually. In general, a laundry run takes an hour, plus whatever soak time I choose.

So I really don't need any network access. I guess it's fine if others want it, but I see it as a liability. If it connects to a network, that's a security vulnerability (don't want a laundry DOS) and another thing to break. Ideally, every model could optionally ship without it.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 7 months ago

Its enough for me too. But not everyone has the same use case and environment. I definitely see why someone would want this.

What I disagree with is that it needs to communicate to the internet to do this. It adds delay and potential for outage if your internet is out. But they do this so they can force you to get their app and milk you for extra data to sell. Internet capable smart devices are to harvest data not grant features. Features could be done better by ZigBee and a hub, but that doesnt grant the device a way to phone home

[–] [email protected] 13 points 7 months ago (7 children)

Mine is in my garage, and I can't hear the jingle from inside the house.

But two power monitoring smart plugs+ home assistant fixed that issue

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 7 months ago (4 children)

Then again, a simple timer on your phone could do the same thing.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 7 months ago (3 children)

Wait: Do the times listed on the screen of your washer/dryer actually reflect reality

My dryer will say it's got 20 minutes remaining for like an hour and a half. And yes, I clean the lint screen and vent regularly (all the way up to the roof!).

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago

I know so many people that will tell me that that is important to them. Those same people will hear the little jingle on their washing machine know that it's done, and then not go move the laundry around for 3 hours

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[–] [email protected] 37 points 7 months ago (5 children)

I’m all for smart appliances

I'm personally not. I'm for appliances with a standard interface, maybe, through which it can be connected to some smart home system.

I do not mean internet access or anything else "smart" in the appliance itself. I mean being able to use the same functions as buttons and indicators offer, remotely. I2C will do.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 7 months ago (2 children)

What you have just described could be ZigBee and/or MQTT.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 7 months ago (4 children)

Forgotten laundry leads to mildew. Plenty of home assistance scripts out there to remind users to empty washer/dryer.

Makes sense for manufacturers to want to build this feature into the appliance itself.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Mildew doesn't grow in 15min, it takes hours to even smell weird and days to grow fungi. It's literally been cleaned with soap and hot water, there's not much to grow left.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago (4 children)

I love mine. It reminds me when to clean it, when the drain is acting up, and when it’s done. It can even order supplies on its own. Sure all those things can be handled with a calendar but I’m lazy.

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[–] [email protected] 120 points 7 months ago (6 children)

This is an old article and iirc this was a reporting issue with their router. The wash machine was not using that much data.

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[–] [email protected] 79 points 7 months ago

This nonsense keeps getting reposted, when it was discovered previously it was a router reporting error

[–] [email protected] 69 points 7 months ago (23 children)

Why the fuck does my appliance need wifi? It's not ordering refills for consumables when low at a great discount nor is it going to schedule it's own maintenance as it passes lifetime milestones or detects errors.

I don't want my fucking washer/dryer to text me when the load is done and I definitely don't want my fridge to alert me I'm low on milk or bread, or the door is open. That's such a huge backdoor for anyone looking to maliciously gather data and peer into my life, definitely without my consent.

[–] [email protected] 40 points 7 months ago (1 children)

If, just for fucking once, they could use fully open source software to send that information directly to my mobile phone instead of using black box software to send all my info their corporate overlords, we might talk.

In principle these things aren't directly a bad idea. The fact that these asshats inserted themselves in the process is.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 7 months ago (5 children)

My fucking washer has NFC and I cant even figure out why I would ever need that, let alone WiFi?

Features for features sake, I guess? Another bullet point on the features list.

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[–] [email protected] 47 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (7 children)

Glad I bought a non-smart washer and dryer. I've yet to encounter any situation in life where I thought, "too bad my appliance doesn't have Internet". Not once ever.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 7 months ago

I like my old dumpy dryer. Its a motor, a belt, and the most complicated component: a timer. Ive fixed the thing several times, still runs fine despite being 15+ years old.

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[–] [email protected] 39 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Botnet node? 3GB sounds excessive even for a company that's notoriously invasive.

[–] [email protected] 38 points 7 months ago

As someone else already posted, the 3GB was incorrect, it was a router reporting incorrect traffic.

But that doesn't seem to stop everyone here from continuing to post how the thing that didn't happen in the first place is ridiculous...

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[–] [email protected] 38 points 7 months ago

When your washing machine tries to download Baldurs Gate 3 because it’s bored too

[–] [email protected] 33 points 7 months ago

Data laundry.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 7 months ago (3 children)

I find the idea of "downloading new wash programs" to be absurd.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 7 months ago

Main Menu:

  1. Wash laundry

  2. Mine crypto

  3. Launder crypto

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 7 months ago (3 children)

Now the Chinese government knows exactly how many socks have gone missing, but no it won't tell you where they all went.

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 7 months ago (1 children)

If you put any of these things on your wifi add them to your parental control settings that most routers have. Restrict what it can access and what times it allowed to connect to the internet.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Or ideally just don't put it on the wifi. I just set a timer for when it is done. Even those with variable cycles are fairly predictable and it isn't usually a big deal if your timer is 15min late.

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I dunno, isn't the homeowner an idiot for putting a smart washer on WiFi in the first place? We don't need smart devices, they aren't making our lives better.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

To the average person, putting that much thought and effort into it is for elite hackers only. I know a guy that does cybersecurity and still has smart everything in his house.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

Must not actually be good at cybersecurity then.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Anyone I know who’s actually deep into cybersecurity avoids extra devices, including smartphones. If you’re not hyper paranoid, you’ve missed the majority of what the nation states are up to.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 7 months ago

Or you just know how to block and segregate it on your network.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 7 months ago (9 children)

You already have a phone in your hand just put an alarm on there. There are you eliminated the supposed use of internet on a washer.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 7 months ago (7 children)
  1. Newer washing machines vary in time depending on how dirty your clothes are. So the same program may take 50 minutes or 90 minutes. This cannot be solved with a regular timer.

  2. If you have a job with varying hours, you might want to start the washing mashine when you're heading home. Then you're clothes are ready to be hung as you arrive and they aren't laying around for hours.

  3. If you own photovoltaic, you might want to time energy intense home appliances such as washing machines, dish washers etc. to a period of overproduction.

Not saying, these issues are super important but there definitely are use cases for smart devices. However, I'd always recommend using a local / self-hosted rather than a cloud-based solution.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 7 months ago

y'all are min-maxing life a bit hard there.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Solution in search of a problem.

I guess a mobile alert that lets you know the cycle is finished could be handy? Ability to schedule a load to start later? Maybe a maintenance or problem alert? Depleted detergent and fabric softener reservoir?

Possibly an energy usage chart for the nerds out there who like that kind of thing?

But damn, all of that shouldn't need more than a few kb a day max.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

For most of these events an internet connection isn't necessary at all.

My machine shows the time that is needed for the program when I start it. I know when it will be finished right from the beginning. There's no surprise, no message necessary. If I tend to forget the time, then I can set a reminder in my smartphone.

I can program the machine while I load it to start the washing later. Why load the machine but then program it from a distance? Makes no sense.

Detergent is filled in before each washing cycle. There's nothing to be depleted.

A maintenance or problem alert would be the only thing that could be worth a message function. But: My machine works without problems for 15 years now. So: what should it be messaging me? We can really live better without these useless electronics that only push up the price and the distraction.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 7 months ago

Homeowner should be baffled at why he was

  1. Stupid enough to waste money on a fucking internet connected washing machine
  2. Stupid enough to connect it to the fucking internet
  3. Stupid enough to be surprised at it doing shady shit.
[–] [email protected] 11 points 7 months ago

If you think the useless appliances are bad, just take a look at more critical connected devices.

I needed some POE security cameras, found some foscam ones on the cheap. Plug them up, go to IP, "install our app"... was pleased to find it allowed a local account without the need for an email, but found that half of my network traffic was comprised of requests to their "ivyIOT AI detection". I didnt measure what data was going through before sectioning them behind a firewall zone.

My fault for not having looked further into other brands, they were still a bargain and work without issue with my setup, but annoying

[–] [email protected] 10 points 7 months ago (2 children)

I would imagine that someone might have compromised the washing machine and used it as part of a botnet to attack another system. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that washing machine companies might not be the most-proactive at pushing security updates.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

I have a supposedly smart washing machine that came with the apartment. Setting it up in my locked down appliances network, it didn't work with home-assistant, required cloud access and wanted me to open up ports in the firewall. Nope. No network connection for you. You are a regular dumb old washing machine.

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