this post was submitted on 04 Apr 2024
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[–] [email protected] 224 points 7 months ago (26 children)

This particular homeowner is baffled that anyone would buy a washing machine that needs an internet connection. I'm all for smart appliances, but a smart washing machine is a solution in search of a problem.

[–] [email protected] 64 points 7 months ago (7 children)

I guess it can notify you via your cell phone when a load is done. I could see that having value.

[–] [email protected] 103 points 7 months ago (3 children)

Mine plays a loud jingle when it's done, which seems to be enough for me.

[–] [email protected] 72 points 7 months ago (3 children)

Yup. There are two situations here:

  • I'm in my house and can hear the sound
  • I'm not at my house and don't care when it finishes

If I'm at home and won't hear the sound for some reason, I'll just set an alarm on my phone. My washing machine tells me how long it'll take, so there's no guesswork here.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 7 months ago (2 children)

My washing machine tells me how long it'll take, so there's no guesswork here.

Washing machines exist that are smarter than just running a fixed program. They adjust the program, and thus duration, based om how dirty the clothes are. The same goes for dryers that look at the actual humidity of the clothes to determine if they’re finished.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Sure, and if I'm off by a few minutes, that's totally fine. I honestly don't need to know the moment my clothes are done, it can wait 20-30 minutes usually. In general, a laundry run takes an hour, plus whatever soak time I choose.

So I really don't need any network access. I guess it's fine if others want it, but I see it as a liability. If it connects to a network, that's a security vulnerability (don't want a laundry DOS) and another thing to break. Ideally, every model could optionally ship without it.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Hahaha, but why?

I've used the shortest cycle, on cold, for 30+ years, with less than half the detergent "recommended". Clothes are always clean.

And my clothes get dirty. Mechanic dirty (oils are tough). Welding. Tree sap from cutting down/splitting.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (3 children)

Not trying to defend stupid internet connectivity but my washing machine is in the basement in a shared laundry room while I live on the second floor of the apartment building. No way I'll hear it beep so a notification would be very useful actually. This is a very common situation in Europe where a lot of people live in rental apartments.

The problem is rather that there needs to be WiFi access in the laundry room.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 7 months ago

Its enough for me too. But not everyone has the same use case and environment. I definitely see why someone would want this.

What I disagree with is that it needs to communicate to the internet to do this. It adds delay and potential for outage if your internet is out. But they do this so they can force you to get their app and milk you for extra data to sell. Internet capable smart devices are to harvest data not grant features. Features could be done better by ZigBee and a hub, but that doesnt grant the device a way to phone home

[–] [email protected] 13 points 7 months ago (7 children)

Mine is in my garage, and I can't hear the jingle from inside the house.

But two power monitoring smart plugs+ home assistant fixed that issue

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 7 months ago (3 children)

Then again, a simple timer on your phone could do the same thing.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 7 months ago (3 children)

Wait: Do the times listed on the screen of your washer/dryer actually reflect reality

My dryer will say it's got 20 minutes remaining for like an hour and a half. And yes, I clean the lint screen and vent regularly (all the way up to the roof!).

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago

Washers usually give better estimates than dryers. How long something takes to dry depends on the material used. The washer doesn't care about anything but weight.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago

You don't really need an accurate timer. If it says 2:30, just set an alarm to 3h and you'll be fine most of the time.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago

My 30 year old, no electronics dryer takes consitent time.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Modern machines don’t display accurate cycle times at all. They use sensors to detect when to finish.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago

Exactly, it's just an estimate.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago

Or even just knowing approximately how long the cycle goes for.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago

I know so many people that will tell me that that is important to them. Those same people will hear the little jingle on their washing machine know that it's done, and then not go move the laundry around for 3 hours

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Couldn't you just program it to start (and stop) at a given time, or make a note of how long it says on the display that it'll take?

It seems (to me) like a very, very minor improvement for a huge cost, namely that your washing machine is on your network and is internet connected.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago

And I bet you it reduces reliability, because all those fancy electronics are absolutely crucial for it to work at all and brittle as a sand castle. So you'll end up with a white brick if the wifi module craps out or a capacitor gets too warm.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago

An 1830's egg timer already resolved this problem, Future Boy...

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[–] [email protected] 37 points 7 months ago (3 children)

I’m all for smart appliances

I'm personally not. I'm for appliances with a standard interface, maybe, through which it can be connected to some smart home system.

I do not mean internet access or anything else "smart" in the appliance itself. I mean being able to use the same functions as buttons and indicators offer, remotely. I2C will do.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 7 months ago (2 children)

What you have just described could be ZigBee and/or MQTT.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago
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[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I2C is very short range, it's meant for connecting parts on the same board. You want something like RS-485. The Modbus protocol, which runs over RS-485 would be perfect for this.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago

Yes, from quick googling seems exactly what I want.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago (1 children)

For the love of God, I just can't understand how "needs Internet" became synonymous with "smart" in the appliances market slang. I know it's what advertisers do, but this one is abysmal.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 7 months ago (3 children)

Forgotten laundry leads to mildew. Plenty of home assistance scripts out there to remind users to empty washer/dryer.

Makes sense for manufacturers to want to build this feature into the appliance itself.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Mildew doesn't grow in 15min, it takes hours to even smell weird and days to grow fungi. It's literally been cleaned with soap and hot water, there's not much to grow left.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago

I just start a timer on my phone?

I have one for both my dryer and my washer.

I load the washer then start the timer, when it goes off I just load it in the dryer then start the other timer.

It's super easy and it's no effort at all.

I had an old wind up kitchen timer with writing on it for a while but I missed it a few too many times so I switched to the phone timers.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago (1 children)

You don’t need it to be on the appliance itself. Hook a power metering smart outlet and you can tell. Or a shake sensor. Or an open door sensor. Combine them all for a reliable effective way to tell if it’s done and the door has been opened, all for a much lower price than what those “smart” appliances charge the premium for. This way you can also choose vendors that work on local wifi/zigbee/z wave and don’t own a paper weight or part functional item the moment the vendor decides to shutdown the servers.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago

Agreed, and this is what I have set up for mine... But this is also technologically so far out of reach for >95% of people...

[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago (3 children)

I love mine. It reminds me when to clean it, when the drain is acting up, and when it’s done. It can even order supplies on its own. Sure all those things can be handled with a calendar but I’m lazy.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago

The drain issue might be hard to figure out on your own. Mine has a little notification light that comes on to run a self-clean cycle every x number of washes, but I’m pretty sure I’m the only one in my house who actually runs it.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I love my brain chip. It reminds me when to clean myself, when my bowels are acting up, and when I'm dead. It can even order products I don't need on its own. Sure all those things can be handled with my own brain but I'm lazy.

- your grandkids in 2074

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

I'm all for smart appliances, but a smart washing machine is a solution in search of a problem.

I personally love smart washers, they are a solution to the problem that we used to have at home.

We have 5 adults at home. The app lets us know if it's being used or not, and lets us know how much longer left.

Also let's us remind the other person to move their stuff in the washer to the dryer.

I personally do not want to walk over to our laundry room in the garage not connected to our house to check each time to see if it's available, then walk back to my room to grab my laundry, then bring it to the laundry room

I would prefer if everything was able to be used on a local network instead though. Like a Samsung machine that hosts a local server where data never leaves the home and still works.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago (2 children)

You can also use it to start a load while you’re at work when you didn’t want your clothes sitting after washing all day. True, there’s old school delay functions but this gives a little more control.

Not saying it’s worth it, but a feature I haven’t seen anyone else mention.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago

For me it isn't about knowing when it's done, it's about it continuously annoying me if I still haven't flipped it an hour later

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago

Electricity is pretty expensive where I live, but solar opportunity is fairly good. Selling power back to grid is nowhere near as cost effective as using solar directly.

So, I could see a compelling use case of, "I want my laundry done by X o'clock. Start the wash when it'll be mostly on my cheap solar."

But yeah. I would never buy one unless it supports local-only/VLAN-restricts-internet-access usage.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

There are situations where you might want to monitor water use (someone mentioned delaying cycles based on water softener status), or people like me who might need a phone reminder because I’ll forget I put a load in and get busy with something else and it’s nice if I don’t have the extra step of setting a timer and trying to get it just right.

The problem isn’t the connectivity, the problem is the proprietary cloud ecosystems. HomeAssistant is already a brilliant home automation hub, just make devices repairable and with local control and I’ll be a customer.

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