this post was submitted on 07 Nov 2024
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cross-posted from: https://lemm.ee/post/46758406

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago) (1 children)

I don't know how I feel about this.

Which is worse, the government telling people that they can't wear certain clothes (and let's be real, at least some of the proponents of implementing this are doing it in an Islamophobic way), or allowing a practice that's clearly intended to cover women up and treat them as second class citizens within their Islamic culture?

Which is right? Which is wrong? I feel so conflicted about this.

I don't want the state dictating dress code, that's absolutely ludicrous, but I also don't want an oppressive sexist religion dictating that women need to cover up otherwise (ghasp!) a man might see their skin.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

i'd say that the better way to let women dress freely is working to get rid of the pressures on them in the first place, rather than forcing them to not dress a certain way in an attempt to give them choice in what to wear.

Yeah it's a lot harder than simply banning face coverings, but that's because it actually solves the problem rather than swiping it under the rug..

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

That would be great, but how exactly? Banning religions that encourage/forces it?

The only reason I could see is to highly educate everyone but that's way easier said than done.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 13 hours ago (2 children)

Non-European here. What's the purpose of bans like these? The obvious cause appears to be racism/Islamophobia, but is there something else?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 13 hours ago

You got it. Sometimes politicians say its for "security" so when someone is at a protest they can just arrest them just for wearing a mask.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

Yep, islamophobia. Our far right party passed it. They also passed a law banning minarets.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

But what about Covid masks? What if another pandemic happen?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

That's called an "exception". Look it up.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

I'm not exceptional enough to look it up, but I take exception to you telling me to look it up without so much as a "please". I hope this kind of behaviour is just an exception, and not the exception that proves the rule.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 hours ago

I'm just making a stupid comment because of your stupid comment. No need to make it personal.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago) (1 children)

Is there also a face mask exception? They aren't handy for just pandemics.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 20 hours ago

Yes there is

[–] [email protected] 19 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

It is also permitted for artistic and entertainment performances and for advertising purposes.

Ah they learned from the Austrians

[–] [email protected] 24 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago) (2 children)

Scarfs, costume masks and medical face masks are allowed in Austria too, but only under special circumstances, e.g. costumes are permitted only for "customs events" (Brauchtumsveranstaltungen) and thus are forbidden for everyday use. Verschleierungsverbot Österreich
However, you can get fined for wearing a scarf if the police officer perceives it to be not cold enough. https://www.sueddeutsche.de/panorama/oesterreich-burkaverbot-trifft-maskottchen-und-radfahrer-1.3700378

[–] [email protected] 13 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

Medical reasons to my knowledge is defined rather limited. There's an exception but in doubt you have to show a doctor's note saying that you need to wear a mask, otherwise you could be forced to unmask. So if you choose to do preventative masking but aren't ill yourself this isn't technically allowed - this isn't widely enforced, but still something that wasn't thought quite through.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 hours ago

Oh,it was thought through very much by some... Some parts of the SVP are very happy about it...

[–] [email protected] -3 points 19 hours ago (2 children)

What's the difference between the woman in the center at the top row vs the bottom row? Skin tone?

[–] [email protected] 18 points 18 hours ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 5 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

a full-face veil.

Never seen that on anyone So a transparent veil is prohibited if combined with hair coverings? Or just in general?

I have conflicting feelings about this ban. If it helps women who don't want to wear it but is forced, great, but if it instead stops women from being part of society because they're not allowed outside without the coverings, (either by religious choice, or forced by family), not so great.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

It's really mostly symbolic. It's estimated that there is less then 100 people that actually wear a niqab/burka across all of Switzerland.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 14 hours ago

Far more common here. You see top center a lot, bottom left often and bottom right sometimes.

What adults do to themselves doesn't really bother me, but I feel sorry for the little girls I see dressed like this. Why the hell would you dress a 7yo in that? According to the Quran "men and women should dress modestly", but why force it on small girls?

If anything I'd ban it for kids. Once you turn 18 you can do what you want. Come to think of it I'd put the same condition on not medically necessary circumcisions.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 18 hours ago

The differene is that the face is visible.