Looking at the specs sheet, this stood out:
Fingerprint reader (Windows-only)
this post was submitted on 25 Nov 2023
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Fingerprint reader support on Linux looks like it's not great.
In general, or for this particular reader? The Framework fingerprint reader works well.
For most readers from what I found. Framework is Linux only and readers do exist that work on Linux but they are more rare.
Framework is definitely not Linux only (laptops are Windows by default , but they offer a no-os option to install your own). They are however generally supportive of Linux, and it's possible that they helped make the fingerprint reader firmware work well with Linux, though I have no specific information that this was the case.
My mistake, they seem very much geared toward Linux folk.
FWIW, most ThinkPad fingerprint readers (except a couple of models maybe) work out-of-the-box on Linux. Like the one on my Z13 for instance, I didn't have to do anything to get it going on Fedora.
Also, take a look at the libfprint compatibility list here, there's nearly 200 compatible readers listed, so I wouldn't exactly say the number of readers that work on Linux are "rare".
That's not truly 200. A quick look at the list shows the same model over and over again. https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/gc8a2e/i_finally_found_a_cheap_usb_fingerprint_reader/ here are a ton of people complaining about them 3 years ago. The climate likely hasn't changed in the Linux world about fingerprint readers.
shows the same model over and over again
That's incorrect - check the hardware IDs, they're different. If it's the same model they'll have the same hardware ID.
Your linked thread is also from three years ago - that's a long time in the Linux world where things change quickly. I could just as easily dig up a thread about x not working on pretty much any topic, so it's not really evidence of anything.
Edit: I just checked the Gitlab releases page for libfprint. Not only have they added more devices (that aren't listed on the page that I linked previously), it also proves that support for many new devices have been added over the last three years. So claiming that nothing has changed in these past three years, is being disingenuous towards the good efforts made by these devs.
Same model, different device id. It happens. There are tons more of device IDs out there that don't work on Linux than those ones that do.
I'm not going to waste money and time proving it but this is a deeply seeded flaw of the Linux community. "Oh these things don't work" is always met with "oh it does you just have to take some impossible steps like decoding this list of USB IDs into actual products you can buy. No, you can't just use any random fingerprint reader which totally works on Windows. It Has to be the exact id on the list. Could be marketed as the same model but you have to make sure you have the right id before you buy it somehow. Good luck!" No business is going to deal with that and only hobbyists into modifying their computer is going to use the OS. Everyone else wants to use their computer to do things, not have their computer as a project in itself.
Same model, different device id. It happens.
No, that's a marketing issue. Different device id == different model, technically speaking. Hardware makers won't just alter a device ID for no reason at all.
There are tons more of device IDs out there that don’t work on Linux than those ones that do.
Perhaps, but [citation needed].
No, you can’t just use any random fingerprint reader which totally works on Windows.
First of all, no one is going out and buying random fingerprint readers - these are usually bundled as part of their laptop/desktop - in which case, it's the buyer's responsibility to verify Linux compatibility with that computer as a whole. You can't expect to pop Linux into any random computer, or connect any random peripheral and just expect everything to work automagically. I mean, it does happen, but that's generally with known good Linux hardware. Eg System76s, Frameworks, ThinkPads etc.
Also, even on Windows, a fingerprint reader doesn't normally work out of the box - you'll need to install the drivers for it to get it going (unless of course you're using a Windows build provided out-of-the-box by the system manufacturer). Either way, it's manufacturer's responsibility to create and upload drivers, and it's their responsibility to create a Linux driver. Otherwise it's up to the community to create it, in which case you're back to usual rule-of-thumb where you buy only popular hardware models with known good Linux support.
Perhaps, but [citation needed].
Ha, I mean if you think there are only 200 different device IDs for fingerprint readers, go ahead and believe that.
it’s the buyer’s responsibility to verify Linux compatibility with that computer as a whole.
That's the exact problem.
You can’t expect to pop Linux into any random computer, or connect any random peripheral and just expect everything to work automagically.
Exactly, hobby project problems. I enjoy a good Linux computer hobby project but I also leave hobby projects in the hobby project section my life. When I want to get work done, I use the thing that lets me get work done.
Also, even on Windows, a fingerprint reader doesn’t normally work out of the box - you’ll need to install the drivers for it to get it going (unless of course you’re using a Windows build provided out-of-the-box by the system manufacturer)
(Most do, you can submit your driver to Microsoft to be included in the system update system.)
Either way, it’s manufacturer’s responsibility to create and upload drivers, and it’s their responsibility to create a Linux driver. Otherwise it’s up to the community to create it, in which case you’re back to usual rule-of-thumb where you buy only popular hardware models with known good Linux support.
Right, as hobbyists building drivers for their hobbyist's projects.
@MJBrune @d3Xt3r Overall I understand your opinion and based on your needs Windows is probably the best solution.
I do however, disagree with the statement about the Linux community. Firstly, if a device doesnt work "out of the box", the manufacturer is able to provide a driver for their device, or submit the driver directly to the kernal via a merge request so that the "out of the box" scenario does work.
When that hasn't happened the community WILL help you, this help is NOT a "flaw"!
No the flaw is in the narrative that it works just as well as windows. I've used Linux as a desktop for almost a decade before giving it to Windows. It has never been as easy to use as windows and likely won't get there. There are a huge number of reasons why but the biggest one is that the community doesn't point out flaws in the operating system. When people do it's met with that it works well enough if you jump through hoops and walk backwards and pray. It's not working well enough for lots of people and it's time to acknowledge that so we can fix it. Not push away the problems.
The one on my E15 doesn't work :(
Cool, but $1699 Euros seems a bit much, no? ~$1800 US
They have cheaper devices, starting at ~850€, but I agree they are a bit expensive over all. They can't really compete with the big players out there, as their volumes are rather small.
Sadly this is the same with framework laptops or fairphone's devices as well. They are great products, but their price to value ratio is way worse than these big companies.
Luckily if I need devices that these companies produce, I will definitely buy from them.
With Framework, you're also paying to be able to upgrade. I like the idea of getting a new GPU and just popping it in.
I dunno, people spend 2k on Apple products that they can't even game on. Add 50€ and you have 32GB of RAM.
Damn, finally! A gaming laptop with AMD graphics :D it looks overall well specced too
Sadly I'm not in the market cause I bought a gaming laptop with Nvidia 2 years ago, and it's still way too good to justify replacing. Too bad laptops with AMD graphics were made of Unobtainium until now
It's great to see more full-AMD hardware from TUXEDO. I'm currently using their Aura 15 Gen2, and my only complaint is about the fingerprint sensor - which isn't even really a TUXEDO issue as they have written and submitted a patch upstream for libfprint which makes it work. (And since I'm using Gentoo I've just dropped that patch into my local portage tree until upstream merges it)
They're definitely not the cheapest computer vendor, but their quality is good and their support is great. No odd boot behaviors, ACPI errors, random device disappearances, etc, like I've had with other non-Linux-first vendors.
Tuxedo computers are just a few minutes away from my place. There is a BMW i3 from them parking one street over.
I'd love.to support them but they are just so pricey.
Efficiency of scale is a bitch sometimes.
Sorry, a BMW i3? Parking one street over? Feels like it would be a bit difficult to tell what company it's from but even then it's not that expensive of a car. It's even discontinued now.
You know that you can put stickers on cars, right? Like, say, a sticker with the Tuxedo computer logo and the word Tuxedo in large letters? Like... All over both sides of the car. Because that's what this car has, you know?
Wjat dies the price or the car's production state to do with anything?
I get the feeling that you are not answering to a very warped version of what I said.
Sorry I don't see the reason you mentioned a car then mentioned the product is to pricey if not to draw comparison. Maybe you should work on your comment composition if you don't want to people to get lost in your context.
Great! It's good to see they are also contributing upstream!
If you're not rich or willing enough to contribute to this, the ASUS TUF Advantage (2023) is a very similar all-AMD gaming laptop, a good fit for Linux, at roughly half the price on sale. I've been using it for a few months now. Zen3+ cores instead of Zen4 but 32GB RAM and an RX7600S, but with only 1920x1200 pixels at 165 Hz, instead of 1440p.
Just make sure to install a distro with a recent kernel version:
- Pop!_OS (best "just works" distro with recent kernel)
- Fedora 39+ or derivative (such as Nobara)
- Archlinux or a derivative like EndeavourOS or Garuda
Linux Mint will not work out of the box so if you insist on Linux Mint, you will have to install a newer kernel yourself.
It's good but not strictly necessary to install asusctl and supergfxctl on it for stuff like limiting battery charge to 80% and turning off the dGPU when working away from wall power.
Nobara is better than pop_os
Thanks for sharing your experience! I don't have a strong opinion about distributions, but just wanted to give some pointers to distros that come with a recent Linux kernel (6.5 or greater) for people who aren't familiar.
Pop!_OS and Linux Mint seem to be the most recommended for beginners, probably because the net is filled with "how to do X on Ubuntu". I recognize that Nobara, Fedora and OpenSUSE have an enthusiastic following too and I really think all of the distros I mentioned are good in their own way.
Am running EndeavourOS Sway Community Edition myself, but I definitely wouldn't recommend that particular variant to people who don't know what they're getting into. Have tried to contribute a fix to it but it's unmaintained currently.
Tuxedo Laptops are great! I have one. The very best Linux laptops out there!
This looks suspiciously similar to my all-AMD Lenovo Legion 7. Granted, mine has a Radeon RX 6700 but running Linux on it and gaming have been a breeze. I would definitely have considered this as an option if it had been available when I was looking. I could do without the goofy RGB lighting that came with the legion.