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No one was even close to do something as good as starcraft 2. How they will evolve the genre?
Immortal gates of pyre are going to overthrow it, they have such an amazing team and the game looks fucking awesome
I hope so
If you want to see a good modern take on an RTS, check out Mechabellum.
IMO the problem is learning curve, it makes it difficult for non-rts players to get into it
And the menuing in the trailer (tech trees) seems to exasperate this issue
This is why RTS shouldn't focus on the PvP portion of the game. A good campaign and arcade is what Blizzard did and it worked. The greatest thing Blizzard ever ever did was to add in the custom map creator which was fully featured.
Agreed, it's always a bit of a commitment to learn the options at first.
Yeah usually "innovation" comes with pandering to mobile users and microtransactions. So we're good, thanks.
I'd be happy if they pandered more to controller players without removing the decision making in base building, like Halo Wars did. I always look to Cannon Brawl as an indication of what RTS can still be (by which I mean, not exactly like Cannon Brawl).
Have you checked Tooth and Tail? I don't think it has base building, but is a very controller friendly RTS
I have. It does have base building, but it doesn't really have choke points the way that StarCraft does. That doesn't make it a deal-breaker, as I do enjoy that game. In fact, the way it has a controllable character that puts a controller-friendly speed limit on APM is something it has in common with Cannon Brawl.
And the AoE franchise tried that at least twice and failed.
Even as an RTS fan, I'm starting to think the genre is dead. AOE 3 actually had some nice updates to the genre, they abandoned most of it though. Sc2 improved on the DoW2 campaign, but it's been nothing since.
Part of the problem is the focus on competitive formats. Pretty much everyone admits it's the least popular format, but it also gets the most attention. Campaign, comp stomps, and co-op are by far the most popular formats, but they get little or no support. Part of it is the pressure to release so early, and competitive is just easier to focus on while fleshing out mechanics and factions. Another problem is listening to pro players of other games, they don't know shit about making a good game, they know what they like about an existing game and want that as much as possible.
Another big problem is focusing on players of well established games. The people still playing ladder on SC2 or AOE2 aren't moving anywhere, there's probably 20x players that have stopped with those games that would love something new. Instead all that gets released are shallow copies trying to get players to move off a game they've played for a decade.
https://sunspeargames.com/skill-ceiling/ immortal has this figured out, after playing in both playtests and seeing how the devs handle new ideas I'm set
Slightly different, but I stopped playing Rocket League not long after they abandoned all the cool weird arenas because it got boring playing exactly the same map with a different skin.
They standardised the arenas after listening to what the pro players wanted.
I swear, standardization kills fun and creativity.
There's plenty of "evolved" RTSs in the indie scene:
The genre is far from dead, but the problem might be audience. When they demand "evolution" that means it should pander to recent trends like survival crafting and roguelikes and whatnot. Problem is some of these formulas don't usually pan out well for RTS games. Then there's multiplayer and, like other commenters mentioned, ranked multiplayer usually devolves into a bunch of strangers playing the same few maps over and over, but gamers still demand multiplayer.
Alas, I see the genre as not dead but in a "doomed if you do, doomed if you don't" spot. Meanwhile I'm sitting here waiting for a regular old historic RTS like Empire Earth or Rise of Nations.
I'd add They are Billions as another evolutionary branch that's doing something different. Starting to see some clones of this formula.
That said, I don't think Against the Storm or Manor Lords are the kind of games Pottinger is talking about. Against the Storm doesn't even have combat. Those are more in the city builder realm.
True, they're a bit off the mark, but they were the ones off the top of my head. Also, in my defense, I don't think Pottinger knows what he's talking about either. The man glorifies Age3 like crazy, saying they had to scale back some features, fearing they'd prove too revolutionary. I love Age3, but the game was hardly world-shaking. Take its contemporary Rise of Legends, now that was a title that went balls out.
Still, I'm curious what they're cooking up in that new studio.
I just want an RTS I can actually play with my wrist in its current condition. I can do the earliest C&C campaigns, but that's partially because the AI isn't good enough to require fast and precise mouse movements. I just physically can't do micro anymore and attempting it hurts, but most RTS games are designed in such a way that micro is required.
Gamers don't demand multiplayer, companies wanting to sell skins do. When your content is zero effort, mods easily outdo you.
Some of them already evolved into a tounerous new goblin of a subspecies (MOBAs) to fill a different niche, the rest stayed the same because they were already good as is. That's literally how evolution works. You don't improve RTS by drastically changing the formula, you improve then with graphics, lore, and interesting mechanics within the existing framework. If you evolve the formula then it's not an RTS anymore.
I hope we will se more non-micro RTS games. More like HOI4, but that takes less than 1 hour to finish a game. Dune and Line Wars are on the right track.
Beyond all reason is next gen of RTS. I'm a huge beyond all reason simp so..
For real. Imo the best RTS out there currently. I feel so much more in control of the camera and the units. Whenever I go back to old RTS games now they feel dated and clunky.
The AI is also surprisingly enjoyable for a more casual player like me. It doesn't cheat (as far as I'm aware) by getting resources or having vision where it shouldn't. But it does exploit its high APM and it is very aware of what it can get away with in fights. This results in an AI that never does outright bullshit, but in one that does just sneak past the 2mm space not covered by turrets or units and ruins your entire economy. Give it a large open map and it'll demolish me, but on smaller maps with choke points it's easier to handle.
How does it differ from Zero-K or Supreme Commander (or any other TA clone)?
Found the answers in the Bar FAQ: https://beyondallreason.info/faq/what-are-the-differences-between-bar-and-zerok
TLDR: Zero-K and BAR are based on the same FOSS engine. Zero-K is less micro with better unit AI. BAR delivers a more vanilla and micro intensive Total Annihilation experience.
Supreme Commander is proprietary closed source and has some different mechanics. Larger but worse maps.
I watched the trailer and the evolution they're going with is apparently not making an RTS anymore, but an Action Roguelike. If that's the kind of evolution we're talking about, I feel we've already stuff in a similar vein (dunno specifically about roguelike though).
And that, too, isn't new. It's been done since at least the Spellforce series, or Dawn of War 2.
If you want to see what an "innovated" RTS looks like, check out Beyond All Reason. The base formula is Total Annihilation, but with nearly 30 years of player driven improvements and QoL. That game's UX is extremely smart, and you can keybind or automate so many things on the fly, freeing you up to make strategic and tactical level decisions , instead of spamclicking for micro. Which, you can also do if you want to.
zero-k is also like that, less emphasis on the graphics though but more on the gameplay
Sc2 WoL is one if my favourite games, and no RTS has come close to it in my eyes
that was also my favorite... but now it's immortal gates of pyre, they have a perfect team to overthrow it.
Beyond All Reason (open source with FOSS engine), Stormgate (proprietary but made by ex-SC2 devs) are separate attempts at what I would call innovating the RTS genre.
AoE2 DE by Microsoft is tried, true and super popular still but many aspects are still from the original game 20 years ago. AoE 4 seems to kind of be the attempt at improving the formula, seems okay.
The Starcraft 2 engine is amazing but now under Microsoft ownership, I was hopeful initially but it looks as though it will continue to be left to rot. If only they could give it a Halo makeover using the same engine that would be awesome.
I'm sorry but stormgate is ass
you should really check out the development in immortal gates of pyre, it is my perfect rts as a huge starcraft II nerd
How is Stormgate innovating? Genuine question--I've been avoiding it largely because it looks so much like StarCraft (and Pottinger even calls it out specifically in the article as something not innovative).
As someone who loved sc2 and had high hopes for Stormgate, it's pretty hot garbage in its current state. Micro-transaction central before it's even in a close to finished state.
As long as the evolution doest involve micro transactions.
I thought everything just went to the 4x formula and/or the micro/hero focused route. I actually wish there were more simplistic Warcraft 1/2 or C&C type games to come out, but I'll admit I haven't paid much attention to the genre for awhile, pretty much since StarCraft 2.
Devs or more specifically the parasitic executives who want nothing that a money machine look no further than Factorio as a shining example of how to innovate a gaming experience and genre. It is as easy or difficult and as simple or complicated as the player wants it to be and it's not because difficultly settings. Your playstyle is the difficulty setting and it feels like there is ALWAYS something new to do, or a wildly different ways to do the same things. Also, their mod support and integration is unparalleled as far as any other game that comes to mind. No micro transactions, no ads, just an excellent game and experience. Sure, Factorio isn't for everyone but the way it has been build, supported and all of those other elements that make it what it is beyond the core factory building sim ARE FOR EVERYONE. These aspects can be applied to other RTS games in general and can make it feel like a brand new experience while still being exactly what draws players into a specific RTS game.
Mmhhmm, factorio team is top tier. Excited to see what they make next.