this post was submitted on 20 Mar 2024
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[–] [email protected] 89 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (92 children)

It's almost like she's trying to be polite because she knows that sometimes guys turn violent when they're rejected.

EDIT: Look, I'm getting tired of this. Not a single person arguing with this is having a conversation about this that is based in reality, they are just trying to twist words to make it sound like maybe there's some equivalence here. Have some statistics from Australia. You can look them up for your country if you care:

https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/crime-and-justice/personal-safety-australia/latest-release

Those discrepancies are shocking but not really that surprising if you've lived in society at all. Also, this is just rates of violence, of any kind. It says nothing at all about the consequences of that violence. I'll bet if you looked into that it's worse for women too. If you're wondering why so many categories don't have rates of violence against men, it's because they have a "high relative standard error", which is statistics speak for "the rate is so low we can't properly measure it".

But if you're saying, "NOt All mEn" in the face of this reality then let's be real, you don't actually give a shit about this. You just feel personally attacked and you want to deflect. Men getting mad because their fragile egos are bruised. Maybe some of them would turn violent if a woman said it to their faces. As they say, a hit dog will bark.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 8 months ago

This. And I'm a guy. I completely understand why women are "overly" nice.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 8 months ago (12 children)

Woah now, you better not be insinuating that men and women are anything but exactly equal in their temperament. The salty dudes on Lemmy won't let you get away with telling them otherwise.

I've been in a handful of conversations over the last couple weeks with men on this platform that don't understand the concept that women have to treat men a specific way for fear of the few of them that can be violent.

Apparently watching out for your own safety as a woman by treating men differently is sexist and completely unacceptable.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

No, no, you're supposed to treat everyone fairly, the exact same way and always assuming they are the best, most stable people who would never react adversely to a "no" or any other negative occurrence.

And then when you run into that statistically inevitable crazy person, just let em beat you to death! You wouldn't want to hurt the feelings of all the perfectly decent people you met before then, would you?

Big giant /S

This is unfortunately one of those cases where the mere existence of dangerous individuals makes being a little unfair with the rest of us completely warranted.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago (5 children)

Men killing women and women being afraid of being killed by men is apparently exactly the same thing, and we're sexist for even noticing it. How dare we make them aware of an uncomfortable truth that they were successfully ignoring?

As always, noticing bigotry is the real bigotry.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

It's not a hard concept to grasp. Thank you for saying it, and don't pay the salty dudes here any mind. I readily tell the ones that argue on behalf of their egos to just talk to any woman they know about this, and I always get some half-cocked "well they're bigots too" line.

Like yeah sure, every woman is explicitly taught by other women not to put themselves in a potentially compromising position with a man because all women are secretly bigots.

The male ego is such a fragile thing.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

I'll back you up.

Guys, we have to suck it up. I've talked with my wife about this very thing, a lot. She's really helped me process a lot of relationship trauma in my deep past, including bad/weird breakups.

Men, by and large, have the ability to utilize violence in ways that women simply do not*. Especially towards women. This shapes a lot of inequity and abuse in society writ large, no matter where you are. Forget the law, forget about the rest doing the right thing, forget all your bias, and forget any logical fallacies you are clinging to right now. Just look at the stats above.

One in four. 25%. If you were doing anything in your day-to-day life that came with a risk of bodily or psychological harm a quarter of the time, every time, you'd probably just stop. Or, as OP is pointing out, screw social pretense and improvise a solution with a better shot at safety.

To flip that around, consider all the women you know and then think about how 25% of them have been abused in some way.

Women learn from their peers or otherwise adapt to be non-confrontational, passive, indirect, avoidant, or just plain not present. Sometimes that lesson is learned proactively, sometimes first-hand. Why? Because 25%, that's why.

(* As someone who has been abused by women, yes, there are outliers. But since we're talking statistics, that's another discussion.)

[–] [email protected] 15 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

I was just ranting to my husband about how I got tired of being polite to men* in my personal life who don't take "no" for an answer the first time, I WILL be a "bitch" to co workers, in laws, friends etc that pull this shit. I am exhausted after years of finding 17 different ways to politely say no to a stranger who wants something from me on any given day. I am absolutely fucking done wasting time pussyfooting my words, with the men I am safe with (for whatever reason) and uh often men I am not safe with but I have been VERY lucky to have positive outcomes there. Pure luck

* I just don't currently have women like this in my life. I have though
[–] [email protected] 14 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Some countries in Europe started to look more into this topic since the number of femicides is growing and becoming more newsworthy it seems.

A lot of people are biased since sexism is deeply rooted in our society and many don't realize what's happening around them if they are not directly affected.

Just this week I had to discuss with a rather aggressive delivery person who berated me (unprovoked and for a made up reason) until my partner came from another room. As soon as he had to discuss his issue with another man he started to believe the facts and stopped. Actually kinda glad this happened since my partner is also very biased regarding "everyday sexism" since it doesn't affect him and this was the first time he was able to see it first hand.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago (9 children)

I was with you until that last paragraph... Kind of a shitty thing to say.

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[–] [email protected] 44 points 8 months ago (1 children)

In my experience HR speak comes from one of two places: either she’s actively controlling her emotions, or she’s scared of you. Usually the former, but I’ve seen the latter in friends. “Dude is mentally unstable, armed, and bad at boundaries, time to word an email like HR explaining very clearly what you’re allowed to do and not”

[–] [email protected] 29 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Literally 3 days ago, twins who were being cat called, one was stabbed to death because she rejected him.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/18/twin-sisters-stabbed-new-york-brooklyn-deli

[–] [email protected] 18 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

I hadn’t heard but I desperately wish I lived in a world where incidents like this were surprising

My tone was largely to avoid getting into an argument with the men who’ve received that tone. I’m entirely certain that if the man I’m referring to saw my comment he’d both get offended and assume he’s in the former (if he’s stopped blaming her friends for turning her against him)

[–] [email protected] 11 points 8 months ago (3 children)

As a male, it's somewhat our jobs to teach the next generation that this behavior is not okay.

Not saying you have to be super active about it, but it's no wonder some women are afraid of men. They're much stronger and sometimes just straight up unhinged from generations of telling other men to stfu, man up, and go to war to fight for your country for no reason.

It'll take a few more generations, but I really do hope we can break this cycle of abuse. It does kind of help that women have become smarter with their rights and they're not going to reproduce with these types of men, but clearly the issue is still relevant because rejection could lead to death.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Dude, I’m a woman. And yeah random men are routinely terrifying out of nowhere. The only reason I don’t do the HR speak thing is because a) I don’t date men by nature of being a married lesbian and b) if I don’t feel safe calling you out on your bullshit I avoid you before I have to call you out on your bullshit. My time and safety are too valuable.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago

Exactly this. As a dude, I sometimes feel like I have to be the one to stand up and say something because I have more authority in THEIR minds. I swear some guys just hear women speaking as white noise.

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[–] [email protected] 39 points 8 months ago (1 children)

"Here's a box for your personal items, Steven will show you out."

[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

"It's Dave, actually."

"Dave will show you out.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 8 months ago (5 children)

In my experience they just stop talking to you, as if hoping you'll stop existing or something. I'm the one doing the "best wishes" shit, just to get some closure for my self.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 8 months ago

I think it’s important to remember that everyone has different levels of emotional intelligence, and people like me who are mildly autistic are slow at learning appropriate responses. But more importantly, if someone treats you less than you’d like, it’s not a reflection of you.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (7 children)

Completely tangential, but why are the 's' at the end of words starting to get cut out "She start talking ot you like she work for HR" should be "she starts talking to you like she works for HR"

its not like it saves you time, and it just sounds awkward and clunky to say.

[–] [email protected] 33 points 8 months ago (1 children)

It's afro American sociolect.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Yup. Sounding educated and well spoken will get you mercilessly bullied in a lot of placing in the US. Here in Florida we call it “crabs in a bucket” because if one starts climbing up the others will pull it back down.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 8 months ago (5 children)

Much of Appalachia is the same. If you don't talk like a redneck, you get picked on. The smart kids with social savvy will learn to code switch.

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[–] [email protected] 29 points 8 months ago (3 children)

It's African American Vernacular English. Calling it "uneducated and improper" can and will be perceived as racist as it's a legitimate dialect of the English language.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 8 months ago

I've played this game before, although not entirely as formal. It's basically when you don't want to ghost each other, and you're both being or attempting to be polite about it so that you can keep them as a possibility for later.

I'm not saying to be uncivil, but that's usually what's going on, and it's really obvious when you don't have any long term commitments between each other that won't need to be resolved in the future.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 8 months ago

And then call you a week later when they need something

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