this post was submitted on 05 Feb 2024
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Did nobody really question the usability of language models in designing war strategies?

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[–] [email protected] 68 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

Did nobody really question the usability of language models in designing war strategies?

Correct, people heard "AI" and went completely mad imagining things it might be able to do. And the current models act like happy dogs that are eager to give an answer to anything even if they have to make one up on the spot.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 9 months ago (12 children)

LLM are just plagiarizing bullshitting machines. It's how they are built. Plagiarism if they have the specific training data, modify the answer if they must, make it up from whole cloth as their base programming. And accidentally good enough to convince many people.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 9 months ago (6 children)

How is that structurally different from how a human answers a question? We repeat an answer we "know" if possible, assemble something from fragments of knowledge if not, and just make something up from basically nothing if needed. The main difference I see is a small degree of self reflection, the ability to estimate how 'good or bad' the answer likely is, and frankly plenty of humans are terrible at that too.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

A human brain can do that for 20 watt of power. chatGPT uses up to 20 megawatt.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago

Yeah, and a car uses more energy than me. It still goes faster. What's your point? The debate isn't input vs output. It's only about output(the ability of the AI).

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

To be fair they're not accidentally good enough: they're intentionally good enough.

That's where all the salary money went: to find people who could make them intentionally.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago (1 children)

GPT 2 was just a bullshit generator. It was like a politician trying to explain something they know nothing about.

GPT 3.0 was just a bigger version of version 2. It was the same architecture but with more nodes and data as far as I followed the research. But that one could suddenly do a lot more than the previous version, so by accident. And then the AI scene exploded.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

It was the same architecture but with more nodes and data

So the architecture just needed more data to generate useful answers. I don't think that was an accident.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

It kind of irks me how many people want to downplay this technology in this exact manner. Yes you're sort of right but in no way does that really change how it will be used and abused.

"But people think it's real AI tho!"

Okay and? Most people don't understand how most tech works and that doesn't stop it from doing a lot of good and bad things.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

I've been through a few AI winters and hype cycles. It made me very cynical and convinced many overly enthusiastic people will run into a firewall face first.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 9 months ago

Would you like to play a game?

[–] [email protected] 24 points 9 months ago (7 children)

How about a nice game of chess?

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Of course, LLM is simply copying the behavior of most people, and most people would resort to that as well.

And they probably trained it on Civ, and Gandhi was chosen as the role model.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Makes a lot of sense AI would nuke disproportionately. For an AI, if you do not set a value for something, it is worth zero. This is actually the base problem for AI: Alignment.

For a human, there's a mushy vagueness about it but our cultural upbringing says that even in war, it's bad to kill indiscriminately. And we value the future humans who do not yet exist, we recognize that after the war is over, people will want to live in the nuked place and they can't if it's radioactive. There's a self-image issue where we want to be seen as a good person by our peers and the history books. There is value there which is overlooked by programmers.

An AI will trade infinite things worth 0 for a single thing worth 1. So if nukes increase your win percentage by .1%, and they don't have the deterrence of being labeled history's greatest monster, they will nuke as many times as they can.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 9 months ago (2 children)

That explanation is obviously based on traditional chess AI. This is about role-playing with chatbots (LLMs). Think SillyTavern.

LLMs are made for text production, not tactical or strategic reasoning. The text that LLMs produce favors violence, because the text that humans produce (and want) favors violence.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 9 months ago

Especially if its training material included comments from the early 00s. There was a lot of "nuke it from orbit" and "glass parking lot" comments about the Middle East in the wake of 911.

And with the glorified text predictors that LLMs are, you could probably adjust the wording of the question to get the opposite results. Like, "what should we do about the Middle East?" might get a "glass parking lot" response, while "should we turn the middle East into a glass parking lot?" might get a "no, nuking the middle East is a bad idea and inhumane" because that's how those conversations (using the term loosely) would go.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

The text that LLMs produce favors violence, because the text that humans produce (and want) favors violence.

That's not necessarily true, there is a lot of violent fiction.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 9 months ago

For AGI, sure, those kinds of game theory explanations are plausible. But an LLM (or any other kind of statistical model) isn't extracting concepts, forming propositions, and estimating values. It never gets beyond the realm of tokens.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 9 months ago

Get Matthew Broderick on the horn!

[–] [email protected] 13 points 9 months ago

AI is Civilization's Gandhi.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 9 months ago

...how shocking

[–] [email protected] 9 points 9 months ago (2 children)

It's a WAR GAME. Emphasis on war and game. Do you chuckle fucks think wargame players should emphasize kumbaya sing dance or group therapy sessions in their games?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

If the goal is to win and overwhelming force is an option, that option will always win. On the contrary, in the modern world, humans tend to try to find non-violent means in order to bring an end to wars. The point is that AI doesn't have humanity but is still being utilized by militaries (or at least that's what I think)

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

And a language model, absolutely unsuited for this task, just as much as a lawnmower or a float needle.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Ever heard of skynet anybody ?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

How about WOPR?

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 9 months ago

I am shocked—shocked!—to find out that a technology performs poorly when applied to a task it's completely unsuited for!

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

whaaat? Robots don't just have their own inherent sense of morality for whatever reason???

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Did nobody really question the usability of language models in designing war strategies?

They got some nice clickbait out of it. And that's how dumb af ideas turn into smart career moves.

I hope no one is coming away with the idea that this about something the military is actually doing.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago

She's just like me!

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago

Violence in a war game?! Oh my!

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago

Whenever we have disrupting technological advancements, DARPA looks at it to see if it can be applied to military action, and this has been true with generative AI, with LLMs and with sophisticated learning systems. They're still working on all of these.

They also get clickbait news whenever one of their test subjects does something whacky, like kill their own commander in order to expedite completing the mission parameters (in a simulation, not on the field.) The whole point is to learn how to train smart weapons to not do funny things like that.

So yes, that means on a strategic level, we're getting into the nitty of what we try to do with the tools we have. Generals typically look to minimize casualties (and to weigh factors against the expenditure of living troops) knowing that every dead soldier is a grieving family, is rhetoric against the war effort, is pressure against recruitment and so on. When we train our neural-nets, we give casualties (and risk thereof) a certain weight, so as to inform how much their respective objectives need to be worth before we throw more troopers to take them.

Fortunately, AI generals will be advisory to human generals long before they are commanding armies, themselves, or at least I'd hope so: among our DARPA scientists, military think tanks and plutocrats are a few madmen who'd gladly take over the world if they could muster a perfectly loyal robot army smart enough to fight against human opponents determined to learn and exploit any weaknesses in their logic.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

Do you want to play a game?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

AI doesn't take half measures

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

They need to be trained on the film "Wargames". Or forced to pay Noughts & Crosses against themselves.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

Pull the power cord out

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