this post was submitted on 19 Mar 2025
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Archive: https://archive.is/2025.03.19-115656/https://www.ft.com/content/eb9e0ddc-8606-46f5-8758-a1b8beae14f1

The planned fund for capitals to spend on weapons would only be open to EU defence companies and those from third countries that have signed defence agreements with the bloc, officials said on Wednesday.

It would also exclude any advanced weapons systems upon which a third country had “design authority” — restrictions on its construction or use of particular components — or control over its eventual use, the officials added. 

That would exclude the US Patriot air and missile defence platform, which is manufactured by defence contractor RTX, and other US weapons systems where Washington has restrictions on where they can be used.

The policy is a victory for France and other countries that have demanded a “Buy European” approach to the continent’s defence investment push, amid fears over the long-term dependability of the US as a defence partner and supplier sparked by President Donald Trump.

At least 65 per cent of the cost of the products would need to be spent in the EU, Norway and Ukraine.

EU member states would not be able to spend the money on products “where there can be a control on the use or the destination of that weapon . . . It would be a real problem if equipment acquired by countries cannot be used because a third country would object,” one of the officials said.

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[–] [email protected] 61 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Good stuff, reaming by buying foreign equipment is only kicking the can down the line.

Investing into defense industry that can build new weapons is far stronger then temporarily buying weapons.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 month ago

Or worse, renting or “licensing” weapons.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

"Unless their home countries sign defense pacts", which I kinda expect the UK and Turkey to sign.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago

Dangit, if only we had some sort of defense agreements with the US... /s

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Do any European defence companies have SAMs competitive with the Patriot, or are they still a generation behind?

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 month ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 month ago (1 children)

You're comparing apples and oranges.

Of those I would say that only Aster 30 + SAMP/T is a viable Patriot alternative.

And I believe IRIS-T is superior to current US alternatives.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago

The big advantage of Iris-T is the price of a missile. As in Iris-T is at 250k, Aster30 at 2million and Patriot at 4million. The problem with it is the much shorter range and no anti ballisitc missile capability.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

There is going to be so many Boxers..

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago

my beloved 😍

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (3 children)

We should definitely stop selling weapons there but do we even buy anything from there? They have their own heavy vehicles and AA but I’d be surprised to see a Merkava tank or something in a European army and Iron Dome only works on rocket equivalent of rocks thrown over a wall.

[edit] we probably get ammo

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago

Yes we do. Finland has ordered David's Sling for example.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

PULS is bought by Germany and Spain, with the Netherlands and Denmark using it already.

Germany has also bought Arrow3 as a anti ballistic missile AA system. There is nothing like it available in the EU.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago

Lots of those advanced Israeli AA weapons are developed together with US defence contractors and multinationals (Arrow3 = Boeing, David’s Sling = Raytheon) so one could hope they’re off the table too.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

We already know different countries buy intelligence software for law enforcement purposes. I would not be surprised if other intelligence and cyber warfare suppliers were Israeli.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I doubt tools for policing citizens are in scope of this fund.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

If you abstract to intelligence tools, which is what they are, I am quite sure they will be included.

EDIT: and indeed they are

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Thanks for finding this! Still holding on to the hope that there’s a difference between electronic warfare and electronic surveillance.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago

I learned the hard way that hope, like fear, is a bad habit.