Every day it feels like we're getting closer to battery revolution. It really makes you wonder how different the world will be once we have these incredible batteries actually working at consumer level.
this post was submitted on 02 Aug 2024
13 points (93.3% liked)
Technology
58142 readers
4185 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Every day it feels like we're getting closer to battery revolution.
It's been "every day" for as long as I can remember. Some new world-changing battery tech is right around the corner, but never manages to appear in consumer vehicles...
The difference is this is actually shipping to manufacturers.
Solid state batteries are already being produced at scale. It's happening.
Where are you seeing that?
The first news I've heard is Yoshino power selling solid state power banks. here's a video covering them.
load more comments
(1 replies)
I swear I read about how some companies have managed to come up with some break through to charge or increase battery capacity every few months, yet these are never make it to market.
Cold fusion is right around the corner!
Oh please! I'd love to see Big Oil shrivel and die just like our societies and very planet have under their influence.
They will just take all their oil billions and buy up battery companies at the last moment.
How are they going to convert their assets in that scenario? The value of oil will just go down from here on out, eventually it'll reach a point where it starts going back up again because it'll be such a hard to acquire commodity for the few people that want it.
Eventually we'll get to a point where the only people who use oil are rich people who can afford to run vintage cars and presumably pay some kind of carbon offset tax.
And even for vintage cars and stuff, I assume we'll see better eco friendly and bio fuels being created that could be made in smaller batches without needing to use conventional oil as the fuel. Starting to see more and more of this on aviation already, and even some old warbirds have done recent tests on these fuels and run really well.
Yeah the US Airforce tested all their planes even the stealth bomber on a SAF that can be made from sequestered carbon, they said it passed all tests and that it would be a great way to be fuel independent, they're especially interested as it seems to look possible to fit carbon capture and processing in a small enough package to fit in an aircraft carrier. Even if manned planes aren't as useful in future conflicts we'll likely see drones that use jet fuel replace them.
Too bad the lithium battery industry is no better. Those places are child labor slave mines and the environmental damage is astronomical..
This is true but coal mining is just as bad and requires orders of magnitude (mineral fuels) more excavation than all of the other minerals combined. If we can stop mining coal by using renewables the total amount of mining will be a fraction of what it currently is. Plus many of the other minerals can be reused where coal just ends up as carbon in the atmosphere.
This is exactly it. Of course battery production is harmful too, but not only is it less harmful than other sources to extract, you also don't have to burn batteries to generate the power. With fossil fuels, the extraction is massively more harmful and then the use itself creates even more pollution.
load more comments
(1 replies)
load more comments
(1 replies)
This is the real next step, every other battery hasn't made it to production, but if they're sending out working EV batteries to EV manufacturers and have production line running then it's finally real.
And as soon as Korea starts mass producing long range, quick charge solid state batteries, the factories in China are going to start mass-producing them as well.
Regardless of what it means politically, this is fantastic news, I didn't know they were actually producing them beyond prototype stage into commercial production.
Heellll yeah.
Let's hope it's better than most Samsung products
Their batteries are usually top notch. If you're hunting around for 18650 cells--which are notoriously bad for fake claims on Amazon and Aliexpress ("80,000mAh!!!!" when the best 18650 cells are closer to 3,500mAh)--a genuine Samsung cell is a safe bet.
Samsung was very transparent about their fuck up with the note 7. The article you linked makes it very clear it was a connection issue or a different manufacturer. At this point this is equivalent to the burn banana peels to get high or you eat dozens of spiders while you sleep internet lies.
It's not a lie, they screwed up twice. I don't care if it was another manufacturer that screwed up, at the end of the day, Samsung is responsible for QA on anything they sell.
That said, they were very transparent (hence why I linked it). However, I still don't trust Samsung for other reasons:
- their refrigerators have a horrible repair track record
- Samsung Smart TVs spy on you
- they steal your aftermarket parts
- Samsung is the largest chaebol, so I expect them to not play fair
They do make some high quality stuff, but I generally avoid them because I don't trust them (I do have a Samsung "dumb" TV, and I may get a Samsung washing machine). I don't think their batteries will explode again, but they'll probably do something like make it difficult for independent repair of their batteries. They're actually better than most in their phones, but that's a pretty low-value repair vs for cars.
Mostly agree, I hate Samsung in general (sent from Samsung Galaxy S22). Anytime I see someone considering their appliances or TVs I try to turn them to something else. They have made the best batteries for a long time though. I hope a competitor rises to squish them a bit.
Don't buy a sumsung washer. I only buy used washers and dryers because I'm cheap and handy. Samsung is not an option because a large part of the user market is broken in a way that costs the same as buying new.
I do sort of disagree with your QA comment. Everyone seems to think QA stops once you sell a product, but it doesn't. They did a full recall to fix their quality mistake. It'd be like if Tesla finally recalled all of the cybertrucks for sucking as much as they do. Massive PR hit to attempt to maintain quality.
Idk, this was after they were banned by the FAA, so I don't think it was a "PR hit to attempt to maintain quality," I think it was to stem the damage. The Note 7 was already in the news by that point, and 3 major airlines had already started telling passengers to turn off their Note 7s specifically. The second set of devices failed even when powered off.
Here's Time's timeline of events if you want to revisit it. I can understand the first not being caught, but Samsung should have been extra wary of the replacement devices. But no, they only stopped after even more bad news came out.
If Samsung really cared about maintaining quality, they would've taken more than a month to test and ship fixed devices. They should've done a total recall and relaunch a few months later, once they have thoroughly tested their products.
And thanks for the warning about Samsung washers. I have an LG now, and this is the second time the logic board has had an issue in the 10-ish years I've had it (this time it's a sticking relay), and I'm debating repairing vs replacing it. The part is something like $100, but I'm thinking there's a chance something else could die given its age. Then again, $100 is totally reasonable if it lasts another 5 years. If you have any recommendations for brands, I'm all ears.
I went with Speed Queen for laundry machines. If I recall they have three models: a 3, 5, and 7, with a warranty of the same number of years (I got the 7). They've been mostly solid, but we have had some issues and I like that they are made to be serviced instead of thrown away and replaced. I've heard Maytag's commercial line is similarly made to last.
Awesome.
My parents like their Speed Queen, so I'll have to see if my wife would be cool with that. I like that there are very few electronics, just dials and buttons, so there's a lot less to go wrong. I'll have to see if there's a decent commercial dealer in my area.
I also found Yale Appliance's reliability discussions on various appliance categories to be helpful (although they seem to like LG in both categories of washers):
https://blog.yaleappliance.com/most-reliable-front-load-washers
https://blog.yaleappliance.com/most-reliable-top-load-washers
Eh, they only look at the first year of service, and honestly, that's not particularly interesting. I'm more interested in what happens after 5 years, since that's about half the expected life of the average consumer-grade washing machine.
I honestly don't have a problem with LG, the only issues I've had are with the circuit board, and it's been two separate issues (the first seemed like a short, the second was a sticking relay) spaced about 5 years apart (I've owned it almost 10 years now). So the rest of the components seem fine (pump, motors, screen, etc). And honestly, the current failure I have is inconsistent, so it'll probably last a few months before I absolutely need to fix or replace it. I like this YouTuber's reviews, and his recommendations are:
- top load with agitator - SpeedQueen - they're pricey, but they usually get 20 years in a commercial setting
- top load w/ impeller - LG - should last 7-10 years, do a good job on saving water and electricity
- front-load - SpeedQueen (but they're really pricey) or LG (7-10 years; maybe more)
But apparently, he says anything other than Samsung.
I get the cost, but it should be an option to upgrade any current EV to this new style battery.
It's not needed in today's EVs. Things should be upgradable yes, but it's not necessary to replace current existing lithium batteries with this and doing so would probably do more harm than good. The ones we have already outlast the vehicle's lifespan, and go further than a tank of gas.
We don't even know how to recycle these new types, at least we've made some headway with the current gen packs.
I'm thinking less in terms of lifespan and more in terms of range and charging time.
You shouldn't have to upgrade your entire car to get a 600 mile range and 9 minute charge time if all that's needed is better battery tech.
Two questions if that's the reasoning: how often are you driving 600 let alone 300 miles? How often are you out of range of charging, if at all? Charging at fast chargers already only takes 20 minutes, the same amount it takes to pee and get a drink.
Charging at home makes range not matter. It's not gas, you're just always charged up. You don't want to sit at 100% anyway, because again, it's not gas.
The object is to get people to give up gas cars, you do that by providing a better range and a "refill" time roughly equivalent with sitting at a gas pump.
And, yeah, vast areas of the country do not yet have good access to charging stations:
https://www.axios.com/2024/06/25/charging-deserts-evs-electric-cars
https://www.eenews.net/articles/ev-charging-deserts-are-growing-in-rural-areas-study/
https://www.hbs.edu/bigs/the-state-of-ev-charging-in-america
You're missing the point: it's not like gas, and can't be compared as such. If you have a home charger, you never need to use public charging except when road tripping, because your car charges within 4-6ish hours (my home charger does around ~22mi/hr), or overnight if you have a slower charger. You cannot do the same with gas unless you just top off at the gas pump every day.
I'm not trying to get into charging deserts right now - frankly, most people do not live in them, and thus make up less of the EV market at the moment. We haven't even come close to meeting your given objective of replacing gas in even populated areas. Anyway, this article is about a 600 mile solid state battery that will only be in luxury $200k+ cars (which most people in very rural counties wouldn't be able to afford), if at all. Not charging deserts.
Not everyone can have a home charger. People living in apartments and condos won't have access. Heck, even people who do have their own homes will have to upgrade their electrical panels to allow for charging.
Until everyone can charge at home, it all boils down to how much range a car gets and how fast it recharges, which is why this new battery tech is such a game changer.
Again, the people that can't have a charger at home will not be able to afford this. It's not a game changer, it would take higher powered chargers than the ones that currently exist, making your whole "charging desert" issue more problematic (not to mention that you first had an issue with rural charging and are now talking about urban environments where charging access is easy to come by even if not directly in your apartment).
The solution isn't prohibitively expensive 600 mile range batteries (are you still saying you need that on the daily?), it's more chargers.
Once again, it seems like you think EVs work and charge/fill up in the same way as ICE vehicles. They don't, and unless you've driven or owned one I'm not sure why you'd be speaking from such an authoritative standpoint.
Not true. Before we bought our house we could have easily afforded an EV. We didn't buy one because we had no place to charge it.
After buying a house, we had to do other upgrades before we could even think of adding a charger, like upgrading the electrical panel from 100A to 200A, and even then, there were other priorities like a new roof and solar panels.
What I don't get is why you're so averse to the basic premise of EV owners being able to upgrade the battery tech in their vehicles to get a superior range and charging time.
As it stands right now, range is inadequate and varies greatly with operating temperature:
"It's well known that EVs lose some of their travel range in the cold, especially in subzero temperatures like those that hit the nation's mid-section this week. Studies found that range loss varies from 10 percent to 36 percent."
The average range on an EV is around 300 miles, so losing 10 to 36% of that in the cold is no good, especially when it takes longer to charge in the cold as well. With a 600 mile range and 9 minute recharge, that's less of a factor. Even if it takes 2x as long to charge in the cold, that's still less time than it takes to charge a standard EV in good weather.
Every EV owner should have the option to upgrade to this new tech for better range and faster charging. Especially since the batteries are designed to be replaced ANYWAY.
The other guy is being dumb. He's trying to tell people what they do and don't need, and that's not going to work; especially when you are considering people who are stuck on ICE cars for the exact reasons you're saying.
I love my ICE vehicle, but I've said many times that I'd consider a battery powered vehicle when I can get 500+ mile range. The last thing I'm going to do is allow myself be inconvenienced by something I don't care about, and this is the story here. I'm passionate about my WRX, but I could never be passionate about a battery and electric motors. When I switch, it'll only be because the benefit is incredible and undeniable. People will simply not convince me that a 300 mile range in optimal conditions is going to suit me, because things never play out like the paper specs say.
The benefit is incredible and undeniable, as long as you can plug in to a wall somewhere regularly. If you have to rely on public fast charging they may not be for you.
The only benefit of a gas powered engine is you can fill the gas tank up in about 5 minutes.
Forgotten benefits of gasoline: you can fix it yourself and you're not locked into a shiny new consumerist downward spiral that demands you buy a new vehicle every ten years when the car can't go 200 miles in a single charge anymore? And the next guy who gets the battery powered vehicle is just worse off than you were, as the poorer along us suffer even worse condition vehicles and the risk of massive expenses in the way of new battery failure. Why is nobody concerned with the fact that batteries are going to lock us into excess and unavoidable consumerism as they degrade? Engines -might- fail, but batteries -will- fail.
List one battery powered device that isn't basically disposable.
I own a Tesla because my engine died at 95k miles in my 2016 VW, with regular maintenance, and it was $11k for just the engine, not counting labor to install it.
I could change it myself, and I could have bought a used engine for roughly $5500, but the economics of that dont work out.
I'm willing to take my chances with a battery pack installation.
Also, 200 miles range is 6x the average daily miles driven, so for almost everyone, it should be plenty! Unless you're thinking we should mass produce solutions for the 1%?
The weight matters too. EVs are notoriously heavy. You have to haul around the batteries whether they are full or not.
"However, due to their high production costs, these batteries’ initial application will be limited to the “super premium” EV segment."
load more comments
(1 replies)
965 km ... so aprox 1000km.
There's a good chance you are mistaken. It was not specified which type of mile they are referencing.
The only sensible mile to use would be the Scandinavian mile (10.000m). = 6000km range.
Another possibility is the nautical mile (1852m). = 1.111,2km range.
And there are plenty of other "miles" to choose from.
If this works as advertised then it'll revolutionize more than just cars. This is huge
load more comments
(1 replies)
view more: next ›