Fediverse

kbin was the perfect storm of single developer and reddit migration. honestly, ernest could have saved everyone a lot of time and effort had they listened to the community 10 months ago when they were begging for more involvement.

account portability is a big topic in 'verse developer circles. i think it is inevitable at some point, but its highly complex and will take some serious ActivityPub cooperation and standards. that we utilize addresses as names for both users and content is a big nut in the works.

in the meantime, users should focus on community organized and operated instances. a shining example of this is beehaw.org

also please dont forget this ecosystem is still in its infancy. the kinks, they are being worked on but its still the bleeding edge of social media tech, which can be painful.

Kbin is dead. Long live Kbin.

For those who enjoyed the Kbin experience, Fedia.io has been fantastic! It's running Mbin, a fork of Ernest's Kbin. It's stable and online reliably!

Hopefully Ernest is able to take care of himself. I've only ever had limited interactions with him, but he seems like a good guy, and I hope he's able to get back to work on fulfilling his vision for the project.

You’ve highlighted what is definitely a major problem with the Fediverse - all it takes for you to lose all the hard work you’ve done building up a community is the person running a server to pull the plug with no warning.

I loved kbin social - I started out on there, and only moved over to lemmy because it was getting too erratic and it was impossible to find out what was going on. Being able to move is a great thing, but if you miss your window to move, you’re SOL.

Admins definitely need to be willing and able to have the reins over to someone else if it’s getting to be too much, or to at least let people know in advance if they’re planning to shut down. Communication is key.

fedia.io is the replacement you're looking for. It's an mbin, which is a branch from kbin

A shame about kbin. It's where I landed as well but eventually had to move to lemmy.world.

I wonder if there would be enough data on archive.org to rebuild your community? I guess not given users who moved might not have kepth the same usernames.

60 days notice is standard on Mastodon, it would be nice to see instances commit to that.

I started out on kbin.social. It really had a lot of potential...until it didn't. Now, I spend my time on lemm.ee or kbin.earth (they migrated over to mbin). Account migration would have been great, and made things a lot easier, but you live and you learn. The fediverse is a new frontier for all of us. I wish Earnest the best!

I just dropped Kbin from my bookmarks yesterday. I'm sad to see it gone, as it had some nice features.

@[email protected] If you liked kbin (like me) I suggest checking out mbin(kbin hard fork), I moved to it a year ago when I seen first red flags, and I don't regret it

https://joinmbin.org/

But I can’t help but feel like there’s another story here regarding the potential risks of the fediverse:

It's perhaps the most important story going forward. Rexxit was only a year ago and a lot of instances are gone already. If that's not sorted out people will start to wonder why they should invest time and effort in an instance or community.

Admins need to be ready to migrate ownership to others who are willing to take on the financial or user account management burden.

It was touch-and-go for us on feddit.uk but it all worked out right at the last minute and we've been working hard to ensure that everything is set up so that the instance's future is assured for as long as the users want it. Here is our most recent financial report.

A lot of problems could be avoided by planning ahead - never rely on a single Admin and make sure that funding is in place (and not being run from any one individual's bank account - why Open Collective is very good for this). That way, if one Admin has to step down (and you are less likely to burn out if you can spread the load) then there are already others who can pick up the slack.

The idea of migration and data preservation has been a topic since day one, since that's a big reason why so many moved to the Fediverse. I still haven't seen a perfect solution, and maybe there isn't one. Perhaps just having a lot of redundancy (oh no, reposts!) is the only true way of protecting posts for as long as possible, and even then...

Ernest started things rolling with something that probably wasn't ready for the demand, but it was there when the time came. That others forked off from it and kept it going is the bright spot here. I appreciate Lemmy and even have an account from the first days, but I like the kbin/mbin setup better so that's where I sit.

We were seeing the warning signs already by the amount of bots and spammers who were taking over abandoned instances. They just posted a lot of garbage that filled up everywhere they went. And there was almost nobody there to deal with them. Ernest being out of action for prolonged periods didn't help this.

I really hated to see kbin social get mistreated this way considering it was my true alternative since Lemmy got mostly bombarded with former Reddit users that took that over and made it their own.

Kbin social is a learning lesson that if you're unable to maintain something due to personal problems, it is time to hand over the reigns. Ernest did do that but I'm not really sure if the person running it now knows what to do.

At the moment of writing this there are 90 comments, none of them even considering the idea that this whole Fediverse thing is never going to be a worthy contender for a healthier Internet if we keep treating it as some hippie, amateur, "community is all you need" project.

"You get what you pay for" is still true. If the thousands of people using kbin contributed with $10/year, you can bet that the developer wouldn't be in this situation.

We might come up with all the schemes to try to mitigate the issues and warts of federated software, but it would help a lot more if most people understood that software developers and instance admins are still professionals who still have ambitions and would like to be paid for their work accordingly.

Also a good lesson to give up control to others. I and others volunteered to help with the spam problem - in direct messages to him - that went unanswered.
If people offering help and you might be overwhelmed, accept it.

I sorta wish the strengths of the fediverse could be utilized by having some redundancy. Im not saying every instance should replicate everything but it would be great if you could make an account for two or three instance and then get some secret to copy and paste into each other to link them up. Maybe even allow a max of 3 for syncing.

I'm going to say it, community migration is probably more important than user migration features. While there is no official user migration there are scripts to carry over preferences and subscriptions to a new instance. Easy peesy. But community migration is a much more important concept if only because communities are what make Lemmy great.

Mirroring content is probably easy enough, but I don't know if we'll ever see a way for the ActivityPub spec to say "This Group is actually now this Group" or if that would even be a good idea.

Man, I'm super glad I gave up on kbin at Christmas and migrated when I still had access to everything.

Sorry to hear you lost your community, but I'd be lying if I said this was a surprising outcome. Even back then people were seeing the writing on the wall with ernest's personal issues, and personal issues are fine and we all have to deal with it. But as someone who has tried to run microservices for friends, I could tell he was less than a year from just turning the servers off.

Here's hoping you can at least partially resurrect your community. And that ernest is able to get to a good place.

This happened with Firefish too, I was so disappointed.

That’s unfortunate. I switched to kbin from Reddit and really liked the community feel. That’s what sold me on the fediverse. But seeing as there wasn’t SSO across from kbin to lemmy, I had a second account for the latter as there was a lot more activity on lemmy and I used kbin less and less as the site spent more time broken.

I agree there should be some more formal way of letting community operators know their instance is going away. However, the fediverse not having any way of enforcing any such rule, means we’re still looking at individual whim determining whether or not an instance will simply disappear overnight or give users time to move.

I think it's important if people don't get too attached to a fediverse account, especially right now. Although it would be nice to see easier solutions to self hosting. I've actually never managed to get a federated app to work via self hosting. Even if there was an instance which you simply could plug(point) your domain into, and have that work if you care about your identity.

Main concern though would be communities

I really miss kbin.. 😔(no hard feelings, I genuinely wish Ernest the best and hope he makes a comeback)

I actually tried migrating my account from there before the major issues, as a backup, but realised it didn't back up my blocked lists, which are much harder for me to recreate than my subscribed list and settings are, so decided to wait and see if anyone improved the migration tools.

Then it became too late, and I had to start from scratch, and am now regretting the instance I chose, and have not yet had the brain space to check out the other kbin/mbin instances and find a new one I like. Until then I'm reluctant to participate.

If anything, the last couple of months, with kbin dying and realising how uncomfortable I am on an instance run by people who have expectations from their users I fundamentally disagree with, have made me want to start my own private kbin/mbin instance for myself so that I don't end up in either situation again, but I don't know that it's something I can take on, having no programming knowledge or any experience with anything like that.

So yes, I agree with you, for more than the reasons you've provided, and I hope we, as a general community use these developments to learn and improve.

I think the bigger issue is Ernest simply refused outside help. He took everything on himself and didn't allow outside contributions, which is just not sustainable for a project of that size. It's a shame because I really wanted to like KBin, especially since it's written in PHP and I'm a PHP developer, but Lemmy ended out winning.

Yeah I've pretty much accepted that kbin.social is just gone at this point. I also owned a community there (/m/ai). I didn't have any spammers appear, but it eventually just died since spam ruined the rest of the instance.

The signs were already there months in advance, but most of us stayed on the instance in hopes that the dev would eventually take up one of the offers to help maintain the instance. Was fun while it lasted, and was the best alternative to Reddit for sure as a software. I don't even know how Ernest kept up with development during the initial Reddit exodus lol.

Honestly, I'm not impressed with Lemmy so far and I don't really vibe with mbin for personal reasons even though the software is great.

This whole kbin story has just pointed out a lot of flaws in the Fediverse as a whole for me. I still like the idea, but the execution needs improvement.