this post was submitted on 18 Feb 2025
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[–] [email protected] 25 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Oh fantastic, no one else posted this concept yet

So, I think there's an important connection there you're touching on. Samurai and cowboys occupy the same space in media, and I'll give you some examples.

Someone else mentioned the movie, but Seven Samurai, a HIGHLY influential and well received film from japan in the 50s, helped inspire The Magnificent Seven, a key cowboy film from the early 60s.

The film Yojimbo (please watch it if you haven't, it's just very well done, really funny, have to get over the 'movies had NO real soundtrack back then' problem if you're not used to old films) is like watching The Matrix AFTER you've already seen the slow-mo and 'i know Kung fu' tropes in movies. The man rolls up into town, two sides opposed and neither really 'good' but innocents in the middle.

What were called 'spaghetti westerns' in the past due to the Italian directors at the time, a majority chunk of those movies utilized similar filmography techniques and plots. The kids who watched those westerns also watched samurai films (cheap movie is a cheap movie on a weekend night) and the concept sort of melded over time to where the Ronin of Japan and the Lone Ranger of America are two flavors of the same steel-wielding hero.

The way samurai in movies revere their swords, talking about the efficiency of a weapon, the artfulness or it, all VERY similar to how revolvers took/take a center stage for western fantasies. Add to that the individualism of the west, the rugged nature of a traveler with a weapon, the tie-in of 'honor' in both cultures, the 'only lawmen can have a weapon in city limits' laws that were featured in the America AND Japan at that time.

Super neat

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

I think this is why Star Wars is so successful. It's western, samurai, and sci-fi all mixed together (at least the good stuff is).

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Seven Samurai was made by Kurosawa, which became "The Magnificent Seven" and "A Bug's Life".

He also made "Yoimbo" and is sequel "Sanjuro", which became "A Fist Full of Dollars" and "For a Few Dollars More".

And he made "The Hidden Fortress", which inspired "Star Wars."

Dude was influential.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago

TIL I need to watch A Bugs Life again, but yeah, I'm very familiar with his work.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

I forget it's not a super widely known thing that samurai movies and westerns have built off each other in a way. Slow burn, fast climactic action, stoic protagonists. It's one of those things that you wouldn't expect at face value, but actually have a lot in common when you start breaking it down. They have influenced each other a lot over the years, with 7 Samurai itself even pulling some inspiration from Ford's westerns.

It's cool seeing some of the history laid out. That sharing of ideas has led to some incredible films.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 days ago

Can't do this with a katana. Check mate atheists.

[–] [email protected] 135 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Drawing your katana with speed and faster than the other guy killing him in one blow

Drawing your revolver faster than the other guy and killing him in one shot

Checks out to me

[–] [email protected] 50 points 3 days ago (2 children)

There's a reason why they made westerns out of samurai movies.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 days ago (2 children)

And samurai movies out of westerns too.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Isn't that reverse logic?

Westerns were adapted from samurai movies therefore they have a lot in common, not the other way around.

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[–] [email protected] 29 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Fistful of Dollars came out 2-3 years after Yojimbo, they have the same plot except one is Samurai and one is a Western. Kurosawa even got paid from it after a lawsuit.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago

They changed the setting to Mexico (kept most of the set design choices) changed the names, and added guns.

I like Yojimbo and cowboys enough that I'll watch both

[–] [email protected] 120 points 3 days ago (4 children)

Both weapons and users coexisted at the same period of time too.

In fact, you could write a story about a samurai and cowboy playing with Nintendo cards and drinking Coke and it could be historically accurate.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 2 days ago

Plus you could add faxing Abraham Lincoln. Faxing is surprisingly old.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 3 days ago (2 children)

I forget if it's Yojimbo or Sanjuro where one of the bad guys is basically just a guy with a revolver who looks down everyone else for using swords.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Please elaborate, with links for further reading.

[–] [email protected] 46 points 3 days ago (4 children)

Samurai class existed until 1870 but presumably they didnt just vanish at that date https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samurai?wprov=sfti1

Cowboys in the traditional sense existed in the 19th century, if not not earlier https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowboy?wprov=sfti1

Revolvers in some form have existed even longer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolver?wprov=sfti1

Nintendo was formed in 1889 and produced playing cards https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo?wprov=sfti1

Coca Cola formed in 1886 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca-Cola?wprov=sfti1

[–] [email protected] 13 points 3 days ago

Hell fucking yes, thank you!

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 hours ago

Well I'm pointing, does that count?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 days ago
[–] [email protected] 36 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (6 children)

Ways in which revolvers are not the katanas of guns:

...

Revolvers are generally incredibly simple and cheap to build, operate and maintain compared to semi auto pistols, submachine guns, assault rifles, light machine guns, etc.

Conversely, katanas require a significant amount of skill and practice to wield proficiently, as compared to many, but not all, other kinds of swords, and are/were also comparatively more difficult to properly forge and balance than many other kinds of swords, and were quite expensive.

...

Revolvers were incredibly common during 'the West', almost anyone could fairly easily equip themselves with one, and many did.

Katanas, for essentially all of their history, were only allowed to be carried by wealthy, royals or nobles or warlords, and their extremely small in number official bodyguards/goons, and soldiers. The vast majority of people were/are legally barred from owning or carrying them.

...

One on one revolver quickdraw duels almost never happened in real life.

One on one katana honor duels were actually somewhat/fairly common amongst those who actually had them.

...

Other points:

Revolvers are romanticized akin to Katanas because A Fistful of Dollars is basically a shot for shot remake of Yojimbo.

Kurosawa sued Leone over this, and won 15% of A Fistful of Dollars' sales revenue.

Nonetheless, A Fistful of Dollars was widely influential on future western films.

The modern, relative popularity of revolvers in real life is a result of their simplicity, reliability and inexpensiveness compared to other hand guns.

They would still be largely popular irl even without their depiction in media.

Katanas, on the other hand, are basically only popular in media in the West due to media, very few people actually own a katana, ever fewer have enough Iaido training to know how to use one.

Compared to revolvers, they would probably be far less popular irl were it not for the media exposure.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Forging a katana is not specifically more difficult than any other shape of blade. It's just forging any steel sword with the less-than-stellar japanese ironsand and the lackluster smelting methods they had was a LOT of work compared to European iron ore and techniques. Starting the iron age some 700 years earlier with better geology is a hugely imbalanced move.

The shape of the Katana is more influenced by how hard it was to get quality metal than anything else, but making one isnt any harder than making a longsword. It's different though.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 3 days ago

You are the best kind of correct, technically correct.

Yeah, what I was going for was that compared to revolvers as guns, katanas as swords were much more difficult and time consuming to produce, primarily due to all the techniques used to compensate for the very poor ore quality and lack of high temperature forges.

The result in a weapon that was far more expensive and rare, taking waaaay more hours of specialized labor than a revolver coming out of a factory.

Making a katana in the modern age, with modern forges and access to high quality ore/alloys is yes, not much more difficult than with any other style of sword.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I can imagine a few hundred years from now the same thing will happen with AKs.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Of all the weapons in the vast Soviet arsenal, nothing was more profitable than Avtomat Kalashnikova model of 1947, more commonly known as the AK-47, or Kalashnikov. It's the world's most popular assault rifle. A weapon all fighters love. An elegantly simple 9 pound amalgamation of forged steel and plywood. It doesn't break, jam, or overheat. It will shoot whether it's covered in mud or filled with sand. It's so easy, even a child can use it; and they do.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 days ago

Lord of War is such a good movie.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Single Action... maybe. But double action revolvers are a great choice for most people. They can be more reliable than semi-auto. They can hit harder too.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Imagine proving a joke this hard.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago

Hey I'm just deferring to the GOAT

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago (3 children)

The m1 garand as a better example?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago

Hearing an m1 ping... that's what life's about

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Wasn't it actually a pretty damn good semi auto rifle for the time ?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 days ago

It was for reliability in the 40s, lost the edge in the 50s

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 3 days ago (3 children)

Single action is a godsend. Virtually no trigger pull, and the mechanism just feels satisfying. Very reliable as well.

Also, revolving rifles. Taurus Circuit Judge my beloved..

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I thought the fedoralord firearm of choice was the Colt 1911.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 3 days ago (3 children)

Magnificent Seven is the western version of Seven Samurai. Prove me wrong.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Wait till you hear about A Fistful of Dollars and Yojimbo.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 3 days ago

Fist Full of Dollars is the western version of Yojimbo.

You can’t prove me wrong because it’s verifiably true.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago

I was told many years ago by a biker, who looked like Danny Trejo, "revolvers don't leave behind empties".

[–] [email protected] 13 points 3 days ago (2 children)

They're popular because they're reliable, easy to operate, easy to work on, and come in a wide range of calibers.

That being said, yee-haw motherfuckers!

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