this post was submitted on 15 Jan 2024
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As far as I know, the big damage from Nuclear Weapons planetside is the massive blastwave that can pretty much scour the earth, with radiation and thermal damage bringing up the rear.

But in space there is no atmosphere to create a huge concussive and scouring blast wave, which means a nuclear weapon would have to rely on its all-directional thermal and radiation to do damage.. but is that enough to actually be usful as a weapon in space, considering ships in space would be designed to handle radiation and extreme thermals due to the lack of any insulative atmosphere?

I know a lot of this might be supposition based on imaginary future tech and assumptions made about materials science and starship creation, but surely at least some rough guess could be made with regards to a thernonuclear detonation without the focusing effects of an atmosphere?

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[–] [email protected] 199 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (12 children)

From a NASA paper on this very subject:

If a nuclear weapon is exploded in a vacuum-i. e., in space-the complexion of weapon effects changes drastically:

First, in the absence of an atmosphere, blast disappears completely.

Second, thermal radiation, as usually defined, also disappears. There is no longer any air for the blast wave to heat and much higher frequency radiation is emitted from the weapon itself.

Third, in the absence of the atmosphere, nuclear radiation will suffer no physical attenuation and the only degradation in intensity will arise from reduction with distance. As a result the range of significant dosages will be many times greater than is the case at sea level.

Sounds like you'd end up with just a big blast of radiation

[–] [email protected] 95 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I spent 20 minutes searching for an answer to this, and all my searches turned up nothing but video games and short stories.

Appreciate you posting that, and honestly a little frustrated on why that didnt come up for me.

[–] [email protected] 72 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Web search has gotten so bad, I hate it

[–] [email protected] 44 points 10 months ago

SEO is a plague on us all.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 10 months ago (3 children)

I've completely switched over to using ChatGPT as my basic question search engine now. Like I get that it's confidently wrong at times and I wouldn't go there for legal advice but for silly curiosities I've got a better chance at finding an answer to satisfy my query.

[–] [email protected] 36 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

I beta tested Bard and have used ChatGPT and the number of times they responded with completely wrong answers was stunning. Confidently wrong is a greatvway to put it.

I switched to DuckDuckGo a few years back and it's been better than Google for a bit. At this rate, I expect Encyclopedia Britannica to make a strong comeback.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 9 months ago (1 children)

What if you can't afford the whole encyclopedia set and can only buy the sample volume?

And speaking of volcanoes, man are they a violent igneous rock formation!

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago

Jokes aside, the future of paywalled curated knowledge is already here. With the current assault on public libraries, I expect that fairly soon, knowledge will once again be a privileged of wealth.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago (2 children)

For the fun fact, shockwave do propagate in the interstellarmedium. Most likely a conventionnal nuke isn't big enough, but we can see the shockwave from supernova explosion, and voyager did measure the moment it left the sun one.

Radiation may be another beast with a well designed bomb, it's pretty hard to stop neutrons, and they do a lot of biological damage. However, radiation poisoning isn't an instant dead. Like shoot a nuke, leave. Come back 2 weeks latter and everyone is dying. Radiation could definitely damage electronic but I would assume spaceship designer worked properly, and the humam will be poisonned before the electronic starts to fail. A note though. The 1/r^2 law would still apply and space is huge. Being 1km out of the explosion divides the dose by 100 compared to being 100m away. 10 km away would divide the dose by 10 000. So the death radius won't be that big.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago

Okay, but now we're comparing nukes and supernovae, and that's kind of like comparing the erosion of a drop of water to that caused by a tsunami. Sure, the same forces may be at work, but they're small enough to be negligible in one.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago (5 children)

Follow up question. If I build a giant vacuum chamber on earth and ignited a nuke in the middle of it, what would happen to the blast?

Would the chamber just explode with the full power of the nuke or would it remain unharmed (save for debris of the nuke itself)?

[–] [email protected] 11 points 9 months ago

All the radiation that normally heats up the surrounding air into a giant fireball would heat up the walls of your vacuum chamber into a giant fireball.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

That's because it detonated in orbit, so it interacted with Earth magnetic field. Far from the planet, I think there wouldn't be an EMP, unless the targeted ship has it's own magnetosphere. But I'm not a nuclear physicist, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

If I'm not mistaken the EMP wave is really just a part of the high intensity wave of photons of various frequencies emitted by the explosion, which also includes the so-called "bright flash".

Some of those photons will have wavelengths that put them in the radio part of the spectrum so they can transverse materials which are not transparent to visible light frequency photons and have the right wavelengths to induce strong electrical currents in electronic circuits and even integrated circuits (which is what burns them) - depending on the length of a conductive line of material there often is a perfect radiowave wavelength to induce a current in it (though I confess that over the years I forgot the formulas to calculate this stuff)

I'm not a Nuclear Physicist but I have 1 year of University level Physics training and an EE degree (though focused on digital systems rather than telecomms).

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

Thanks for the explanation, I learned something new today.

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[–] [email protected] 44 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Others have answered you question about non-directed nuclear blasts in space already. They don't work the same way as in atmosphere; lack the blast or the thermal heat, etc. Enter the Casaba-Howitzer, a theoretical nuclear shaped charge that shoots a directed plasma stream at near light speed. This idea came about in the 60s along with nuclear blast propulsion.

[–] [email protected] 42 points 9 months ago (1 children)

The name comes from the casaba melon, a variety of honeydew, because the lab was "on a melon kick that year," naming various projects after melons and having already used up all the good ones.

I can appreciate that sort of naming convention.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago

Its a good way to prevent bikeshedding. Which yes is a real thing.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 9 months ago (1 children)
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[–] [email protected] 5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Thats fucking incredible. That deserves to be in more sci-fi.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I completely agree. It was used in To Sleep in a Sea of Stars by Christopher Paolini. I can't think of many other works that use it.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 10 months ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 10 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

ah, you beat me to it

To everyone else ☝️ Kurzgesagt made a good video about nuking the moon which fits pretty well with ops question. The moon has no atmosphere to speak of and the video explores the effect on terrain

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

Thank you. I enjoyed it so much, that I purchased their Universe in a Nutshell app!

[–] [email protected] 12 points 9 months ago

Question is already answered, but. The BSG miniseries has a good nuke scene which is actually pretty reasonable: https://youtu.be/R-L4tVksGYc

[–] [email protected] 10 points 9 months ago
[–] [email protected] 8 points 9 months ago (1 children)

That is largely true, but there are still 2 things : first, the plasma is still a super hot ball of matter with very high kinetic energy. Second, the radiations are still deadly at short range, unless you have specific protections, and radiation protections are heavy and bulky. At worse, the plasma can violently accelerate the target ship and damage it with this sudden acceleration.

But you can also easily turn your atomic bomb into a more refined atomic shell. The you can have projectiles propelled by the explosion (so it's now an atomic frag bomb), or a penetring shell with a delayed explosion so the explosion occur inside the target ship.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago (3 children)

I always thought the initial explosion was so hot it vapourised everything in a certain radius. Would an atomic frag work?

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 10 months ago (16 children)

If you made direct impact wouldn't the fuselage of the ship and the atmosphere inside it still allow for the traditional blast to propagate?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago

I think so. I don't think the bomb directly generates a shockwave, but rather the shockwave is generated by air being superheated which causes a pressure spike. All of the energy that would superheat air would still be present even if the bomb was activated in space, it would just be acting on the first thing it touches ie. the hull of the ship. Does vaporized metal still increase in pressure as temperature increases? I'm guessing it does, which should produce a shockwave. But idk, I'm not a doctor

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

The electromagnetic pulse may not cause physical destruction, but it would likely disable any spacecraft in the blast. Which could result in death and destruction when the passengers can't breathe or get warmth and the craft loses control.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 9 months ago

Wouldn't a spacecraft have a Faraday cage anyway, to protect the electronics from stellar winds?

That might reduce the impact of a given EMP.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

If I've learned anything from watching nuclear blasts in space on sci-fi shows, it's that hasshak, dal shakka mel!

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago (1 children)
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[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago

This Video will tell you everything you could possibly want to know on the subject, answering your question exactly and in extensive detail. The long and short of it is, not really, no, but they could be made to be very exceptionally effective anyway.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

You probably need to wrap the nuke in multiple layers of material. Some inner layer to absord as much energy as possible and transfers it as kinetic energy to an outer high-density layer to create extremly fast shrapnel.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago

So a nuclear pipebomb

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