Anyone doing anything with Elon Musk should have serious concerns.
this post was submitted on 22 Sep 2023
588 points (95.2% liked)
Technology
59030 readers
3030 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Yeah, I mean we've been working on brain implants of various stripes for a couple decades now, and they're not the first to attempt motor cortex implants for paralyzed patients as a method to begin human trials, but the current state of the art for brain implants is honestly pretty... primitive. There's no good way to avoid damaging neurons, so it's mainly a focus on not causing too much damage while fine mapping and targeting has to be done on an individual basis.
Implants are hugely useful, and arguably the current state of the art treatment for several conditions (epilepsy and parkinsons), but we're so far out from computer brain interfaces being useful for anything outside of dire medical needs that it's kinda surprising they're pushing ahead when they had so much trouble with their experimental subjects.
I worked in a brain imaging lab in college, and we had a couple of chimpanzees with brain implants that did daily research protocols. Bastards were better than me at the testing regimen, and other than some minor discomfort (water intake is restricted prior to the tests so that the gatorade reward was more attractive), they were large children that could tear your face off if they got angry. Once they got older, they would have surgery to remove the implants and retire to a primate ranch where they just got to live out the rest of their life. All of the grad students there had been working with the same chimps for years, so it's a little alarming Neuralink had so many issues.
It doesn't exactly engender confidence.
What's really sad is hearing how they treated them. Considering how intelligent they are, I find it disgusting that they treated them so bad they all died. It's not worth a bunch of sentient creatures lives to do experiments like this and then just throw them away.
At least your lab was treating them with dignity.
Yeah, in academia getting approval for primate research projects is a huge process where you need to clarify every aspect of the protocol, housing, care, and experimental operations to submit before the project can start. I'm less sure if it's voluntary or required, but we had funding allocated for their retirement from the start. They're smart enough and strong enough that I'd be terrified to work with unhappy and unwell primates.
Not that all research projects are have happy endings, but I don't think corporate research has the same restrictions and oversight that academic research does, given that this even happened. I'm pretty accepting of the necessity of primate research models, but we should be doing everything we can to treat them as best we can. Withdrawing a subject from the experimental protocol should be preferred over letting an infection fester just because the implant is in the way. Just seems really poorly done on their part.
load more comments
(2 replies)
Didn't Neuralink fail animal testing? Something about most of their monkeys dying from the trials? How did this get to human testing?
Kinda like how Elon promised a mars colony by 3 years ago, and his big rocket exploded on its first flight a few months ago.
Or how full self driving has been ready “next year” for the passed 5 years.
Hyperloop was going to revolutionize transportation, by having a train in a vacuum tunnel, and is currently an abandoned tube in the desert.
The boring company was going to create high speed car tunnels under cities, and it’s test track is a 30mph traffic jam, but now underground.
Solar city was going to put solar tiles in place of your shingles and offset your power usage, but the demo musk showed was an actual fraud, and there were no solar panels.
Last but not least, spaceX promised “rapidly reusable rockets” with a 10x decrease in cost to low earth orbit. The fastest turn around they’ve ever had was a month or so, about as long as the space shuttles’ fastest turn around. The falcon 9 still costs between 50 to 60 million per launch, even if it’s a reused booster or not, and the space shuttle was capable of taking crew and cargo/payload at the same time, while the falcon can only take one or the other.
Musk companies have a long history of promising the moon and delivering playground sand. Don’t buy any of his products and don’t fall for his “saving humanity” bullshit. He’s just a conman who’s defrauding investors for billions.
Musk has since come out and all but stated Hyperloop was specifically funded and hyped ONLY to kill mass transit initiatives in the area. It was a total vaporware project, they never intended to solve anything.
To be fair, SpaceX cost of 50-60 million per launch is almost a 10x drop in price, ULA is around 400-500 million per rocket. And since they have next to no competition on price, they have no incentive to lower it. It’s just business.
And don’t bring the broken vehicle the shuttle turned out to be into this. A great vehicle on paper, but with to many cooks. The shuttle era gave us the ISS, but is cost us almost all activity outside of LEO.
load more comments
(5 replies)
There an article in Wired just this week I think about how horrid the experiments on the animal were.
Musk, of course, lied again saying the monkeys were old and going to be euthanized anyway. They were young, and the experiments were terrible for them — where they were clawing at their heads trying to remove the devices. Some had literal screws coming loose.
Reading this story I decided to boycott everything related to Elon Musk.
Additional veterinary reports show the condition of a female monkey called “Animal 15” during the months leading up to her death in March 2019. Days after her implant surgery, she began to press her head against the floor for no apparent reason; a symptom of pain or infection, the records say. Staff observed that though she was uncomfortable, picking and pulling at her implant until it bled, she would often lie at the foot of her cage and spend time holding hands with her roommate.
Animal 15 began to lose coordination, and staff observed that she would shake uncontrollably when she saw lab workers. Her condition deteriorated for months until the staff finally euthanized her. A necropsy report indicates that she had bleeding in her brain and that the Neuralink implants left parts of her cerebral cortex “focally tattered.”
load more comments
(3 replies)
load more comments
(1 replies)
I'm going to go ahead and not have something with the build quality of a Tesla attached to my brain, thanks.
https://www.autoweek.com/news/industry-news/a43625242/tesla-is-the-most-recalled-car-brand/
You could then just run over kids in strollers and blame the Tesla chip in your head.
load more comments
(2 replies)
load more comments
(2 replies)
This is a publicity stunt to get more funding. They are going to get some volunteers, but they won't ever get the implants. Neuralink will just keep delaying the procedure by a year and then cancel it once the public stops paying attention.
This is a publicity stunt to get more funding.
It would be if the FDA hadn't approved this. This is the most puzzling part.
I don't see Neuralink taking the legal risk, regardless of what the FDA says. The approval is part of the publicity stunt IMO.
load more comments
(2 replies)
load more comments
(17 replies)
I imagine advertisements being streamed into the user's dreams, turning them into remote controlled zombies and causing mental breakdowns.
Can't wait to need an ad blocker in my brain.
Should I go with NeuroFirefox or NeuroPihole?
Neurofox and neuroblock origin
load more comments
(1 replies)
That's a good Futurama episode! Oh wait
load more comments
(3 replies)
Elon's going to try putting your memories behind a paywall.
Why let you have your memories at all? Each day you remember the doctored history of a happy employee. You're excited for another day of peak productivity with a short break for your favorite meal (the only food you're aware of): Soylent green. Hey where's Steve today... who's Steve... better get back to work.
load more comments
(2 replies)
load more comments
(3 replies)
I think any person signing up for this Black-Mirror storyline is by definition a vulnerable person.
Should but if musk fans want to put their brains in the hands of right-wing moron that's running his companies into the ground, week who am I to argue with their logic.
load more comments
(2 replies)
Mark Zuckerberg was surprised that all those dumb fucks trusted him with Facebook, and Elon must be thinking the same right about now.
I guess we never run out of stupid people.
load more comments
(1 replies)
Neuralink will have all participants sign a waiver stating they know about the risks of death, etc etc. People will just sign and ignore all that because Elon!
Never mind that he's an incompetent scammer.
Maybe we should force the participants to go on an exploration trip to the Titanic before they can join...
load more comments
(1 replies)
I think Elon should go first
If Mr. X is so confident in Neuralink he should be first in line.
Oh shit, you don’t say?
Fucking lol. LOL.
I can’t stress this enough: LOL
load more comments
(1 replies)
I won’t even consider investing until “The Man Himself” gets one.
But they were all of them deceived, for another chip was made. In the land of Texas, in the labs of Neuralink, the Dark Lord Elon forged in secret, a master chip, to control all others.
One Chip to rule them all,
One Chip to find them,
One Chip to network them all,
and in the TOS legally bind them.
load more comments
(4 replies)
Musk is a transhumanist who is trying to figure out how to transfer his consciousness into one of his brood, or into a machine.
view more: next ›