this post was submitted on 03 Aug 2024

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Framework looking for unpaid workers to be 'Linux Community Ambassadors' (community.frame.work)

submitted 3 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 29 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Our volunteer ambassadors will attend local Linux and open-source events, meet with other Framework laptop users and potential community members, answer questions, gather feedback, and showcase Framework laptops and parts to those interested. Ambassadors will be in close touch to Framework employees and they will represent the Linux community, feedback and requests directly to our engineers and to our internal Linux team.

That sounds way too close to unpaid labour. I'm all for recognizing community members with perks, merch, and other freebies; but this looks more like soliciting volunteers for unpaid PR.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 months ago

Everybody was doing this in 2007 for Google, Facebook, Apple. They seem to think times haven't changed.

I don't like something about Framework. I'm not sure what.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I feel like they should at least provide them with a laptop If they're going to do unpaid promotion.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago

showcase Framework laptops and parts

I'm pretty sure they don't expect you to bring your own..

[–] [email protected] 19 points 3 months ago

Could at least give them a framework laptop.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 3 months ago

I'm a big fan of what they are achieving, but if they want free labour they can just eat shit

[–] [email protected] 14 points 3 months ago (2 children)

That's a bit of a disingenuous way to put it, it's reads to me more that they want to reach out/make official what some people were already doing.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, allowing enthusiasts to represent the community and get perks isn't crazy.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, allowing enthusiasts to represent the community and get perks isn’t crazy.

It's not a community (like Debian), it's a for-profit company.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

It the community of their customers. That's who these people are representing, to the company. If this was a paid position, they would no longer represent the community.

It's the same premise as interacting with a subreddit (before Reddit went insane) and recognizing the mods there rather than trying to force the community to one controlled by employees.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

It the community of their customers. That’s who these people are representing, to the company. If this was a paid position, they would no longer represent the community.

It's PR work for the company. Nothing else and no amount of downvoting changes that simple fact.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

it’s reads to me more that they want to reach out/make official what some people were already doing.

So pay them?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago (2 children)

I wouldn't be surprised at all if paying them meaningfully lowered their pool of applicants. I would be very surprised if it didn't lower the quality of the feedback.

Being an "employee", regardless of amount paid or frequency of interaction, is something that would cause issues with some people's real jobs, especially in tech fields, and especially if they're people who want to encourage their employers to buy Framework in the future.

It also changes the nature of the relationship with Framework, how they interact with the community, and the feedback they're willing to pass on.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago

Exactly. If I really liked Framework laptops and Framework was forced to pay me, I'd refuse and probably stop posting about them. Getting paid for something makes it a job, and a job has expectations. I do hobbies because there's no expectations, so I can be as consistent or as inconsistent as I want.

For example, I absolutely love Pine64 products, but I would hate Lukasz Erecinski's job (their official "community manager") because it takes the fun thing and makes it work, complete with expectations and whatnot. I think someone should get paid for that job, but it shouldn't be an expectation for prominent members of the community to transition to paid positions.

That said, I wouldn't say no to some merch as a "thank you," but I'm not interested in merch as an expectation of future work. Maybe give me new products early to test, but not with the expectation that I'll post a review or something (I probably will, but again, I don't want it to be a job).

[–] [email protected] -2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Being an “employee”, regardless of amount paid or frequency of interaction, is something that would cause issues with some people’s real jobs

So does going on business trips for other companies, paid or unpaid.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago (9 children)

Going to an event is a business trip if and only if you get paid for it. People go to conventions all the time.

The people I'm talking about would absolutely be disqualified from a paid position and have absolutely no issue with an unpaid role.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (2 children)

OP, just call them "unpaid volunteers", jeez.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago (2 children)

"Volunteers" are unpaid by the definition.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago

Not always, in military contexts it's used to differentiate between conscripted and those who voluntarily applied.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago

It seems like OP wants to stress this.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

OP, just call them “unpaid volunteers”, jeez.

If that was for a non-profit community-driven organization, what would be the correct term. Framework, however, is a regular for-profit company that is looking for people to promote their commercial products.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago (2 children)

I just really hate clickbait titles when you could easily put your clickbait in the description.

This isn’t a program to get people to go to conferences and rep Framework, it’s a program to give people who are already going to conferences and showing off their Framework some swag and opportunities to talk with the team. It’s not assigning work, it’s just saying thank you to people who are excited about Framework and active in the Linux community.

They already have volunteers for this cause of repairable products they believe in, hence looking for volunteers.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Those "ambassadors" are expected to take appointments via social media to show off the hardware and answer questions. That's a job.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

No? The only thing ambassadors will be required to do on social media is to list the events they'll be attending.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Fist: Yes. "Where do I find the ambassadors in an event? Please reach out to the ambassadors on their social media if you have trouble locating them at events.

As an event attendee, what can I get from meeting an ambassador? You can get your questions answered, share your feedback, and get Framework stickers and other goodies. In case you haven’t before, you will also get to see a Framework Laptop in person."

It's written down black on white: ambassadors need to be available on social media to schedule a meeting, reply to questions, and hand out "stickers and other goodies" (=those aren't even for the ambassadors to keep).

Second: so there are, by your own admission, requirements tied to getting some stickers.

That's a job. It's not a full time job but it most certainly is a job.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

please reach out to your ambassadors on social media

That != "ambassadors are required to reply"

I expect it's layout is much like twitchcon, where you could reach out to your content creators for questions and meetups, but there is no obligation to respond.

In the case of this, these people already were attending regardless, so it's not like they wouldn't want to mix and mingle via social media as is.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

So they have to make their social media profiles public, open up their DMs but replying to those DMs is supposedly optional? Where does it say that in the FAQ?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

where does it say it's mandatory? It's only stating things that they would have done regardless, I see nowhere where it says ambassadors are required to. The only requirement I saw was that they need to state what events they will be present at, and that's only so they can distribute the items(primarily stickers) that they supplied the ambassadors and to actually use the program.

It seems like your typical enthusiast volunteer program if you ask me.

edit: rereading it they also reiterate that fact

Thanks for sharing your concern. We definitely don’t want anyone to go out of their way to represent us. There are individuals who are already chatting with other event attendees, sharing their own experience with Framework Laptops and answering questions at various events without any affiliation to us, and we just want to get in touch with them. I guess “showcase” was the wrong word here. We are looking for ambassadors who would show what a Framework Laptop looks like to others who are interested. We are definitely not looking for a laptop salesperson. Hope this makes sense.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (2 children)

where does it say it’s mandatory?

Read the FAQ. "Where do I find the ambassadors in an event? Please reach out to the ambassadors on their social media" <-- That's impossible if disclosing social media profile wasn't mandatory, duh.

We are looking for ambassadors who would show what a Framework Laptop looks like to others who are interested. We are definitely not looking for a laptop salesperson.

A sales person makes sales, ie. signed contracts. What they are looking for is a PR person. Chatting about the product and showing it off is PR.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

I've read the FAQ, it fails to disclose it as a requirement anywhere, actually it says opposite on the application itself, it allows for marking social media platforms as NA, if it was a hard requirement they wouldn't allow you to do so. Screenshot_20240805_115254_Firefox Nightly

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago

actually it says opposite on the application itself, it allows for marking social media platforms as NA

OK, so I was wrong about this specific bit. I accept that and will no longer say otherwise. Does it make the entire point untrue that Framwork is looking for unpaid PR people? No. It still is very much about "show what a Framework Laptop looks like" and "answer questions".

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I'm assuming that we agree that ambassadors are not required to answer questions other than location on social media nor schedule appointments now.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

I’m assuming that we agree that ambassadors are not required to answer questions other than location on social media nor schedule appointments now.

No. "Our volunteer ambassadors will attend local Linux and open-source events, meet with other Framework laptop users and potential community members, answer questions, gather feedback, and showcase Framework laptops and parts to those interested." <-- Right there in the second paragraph. It's an unpaid PR job.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Where in that paragraph does it say they have to do that and take appointments online?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Where in that paragraph does it say they have to do that and take appointments online?

You guys are really grasping at straws when you have to resort to the social media appointments not being in that specific paragraph. For the 10 time: "We will be announcing the events on our community platforms, also the ambassadors will share them on social media.[…] Please reach out to the ambassadors on their social media"

THIS IS A PR JOB. NO AMOUNT OF DERAILING BY SPLITTING HAIRS REGARDING VERY SPECIFIC SUBSECTIONS OF PARAGRAPHS CHANGES THAT. The part I quoted in the last comment was about the claim that ambassadors would have no obligation to answer questions when the "answer questions" bit is very early in the job description. It's really not so hard to understand.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Picking at my words, fine. Your point is that this is enough responsibilities for a job because the ambassadors will have to be terminally online to answer every single question (and somehow make appointments, which isn't mentioned at all. The locations are predetermined.). My point is that the only questions they'll have to answer is about what locations they'll show up to: that's the context that precedes the "reach out on social media" part; questions are only answered at physical locations while attending conventions. I think that's a pretty big reduction in responsibilities.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

My point is that the only questions they’ll have to answer is about what locations they’ll show up to

... to then promote a commercial product in person by show hardware, answer questions, and hand out stickers. In the end nothing what you guys said negates this being an unpaid PR job for a commercial company.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Because it's not a paid job and you're not the social media manager, you're not representing the entire company with your PR.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Because it’s not a paid job

I've said all the time that it's an unpaid job, duh.

and you’re not the social media manager

Never claimed that. It's an unpaid job to promote the product.

you’re not representing the entire company with your PR.

Entire company? No. Promote the hardware, a commercial product: Yes, very much yes.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago

My point is that you don't have as much responsibility to take on. If it was a paid job and a position, then it could arguably stir up controversy and give a lot of burden to the potential employee to not freak up their mouth and have people believe they said what the company believes. They also wouldn't have to purge their social media account for iffy views.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 months ago

Exactly. If I was in that situation and Framework tried to pay me, I'd be offended. If they instead gave me an inside track on what's going on, I'd be stoked. The difference between an employee and a volunteer is the obligations attached.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago

I think this part:

Our volunteer ambassadors will [list of tasks performed]

And

Ambassadors need to [list of properties]

Along with

Bonus points if [list of properties]

Are what makes this read like a job ad for a job they’re not paying for. If they’d have posted a much shorter version with less demands, selection criteria, etc, not worded as a job ad, I’d have been a lot more charitable in my interpretation. In this case, I find it difficult to read it as anything else than “work for us, a profit-driven company, for free”.

I don’t think it’s a massive problem, but it for sure is bad communication. Ironically.

I generally don’t like this. Company fandom is bad, companies encouraging fandom is worse. Someone mentioned “but OnePlus does this!” as a counter argument and I think that’s telling something because I think they’re slimy as hell. And I had a OnePlus One and liked it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago

So they're just trying to form an official connection with the people that are already passionate about Framework. Nothing wrong with that.

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