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Bull shit. The MAGAS are foaming at the mouth to have this authoritarian regime rise to power with bloodshed. Chomping at the bit to be able to kill for their god king. This is no joke, 2020 was a test run, to see what they could get away with. Now they are ready.
John Oliver did a good job explaining Project 2025 as well
The backfiring isn't because Republicans are upset about it. It's because other people are finding out about it and are rightly horrified. It may (hopefully) convince more people to vote that might have stayed home otherwise.
Exactly. It's all of the quiet parts, but out loud, typed out, indexed, and easily accessible.
Yeah, non-conservatives (mainly liberals) really need to get it into their heads that every single conservative either actively wants an authoritarian state that murders "woke" people and minorities, or if they're not outright for it they think that surely the leopards won't eat their face because they're on the right side.
Ultimately even a "moderate" conservative has fewer disagreements with literal neo-Nazis (oh wait, except the Nazis are leftists according to reich-wingers) than they do with anybody left of the fucking Strasserites. Even if a conservative is not calling for the extermination of {CURRENT_HATED_MINORITY}, they're still more than happy to support parties that either have fascist members or collaborate with fascists.
This is on clear display here in Europe; the "moderate" conservatives are lining up to kiss Meloni's ass, and they don't mind at all that FdI (Meloni's party) is a literal offshoot of the original Fascist Party and a huge percentage of their MPs and "lay members" have voiced their love of Mussolini.
The whole "Nazis are leftists" thing really blows my mind but I've seen people saying it unironically.
It's because in their mind Nazi = bad guy.
They cannot see themselves as "bad guys," so the association is immediately dismissed without further consideration. The leftists are the bad guys, so obviously Nazi maps onto those people.
But it's not really about truth, it's about "winning" the argument.
Also National Socialism means they were socialists, much like the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is a democratic republic.
It just shows a total lack of understanding of what the NSDAP platform was. Nazi Germany was a corporatist (in the political science sense) and authoritarian capitalist country, and they eg. specifically privatized a lot of functions that had been public before, absolutely loathed the idea of welfare or supporting "unworthy" people in any way, and were quite enthusiastically supported by business interests starting from their early years. Socialism, ie. social ownership of the means of production and strong public services, is about as opposite as can be to what the economics of fascism are, not to mention the social side. Fascists literally murdered sick or infirm people rather than support them, because weakness has to be weeded out of society.
Like this contemporary caricature puts it, the NSDAP – the National Socialist German Workers' Party – presented itself as the "Socialist Workers' Party" when appealing to workers, and as the "National German Party" when appealing to "financially solvent circles".
All of this is just completely beyond many conservatives' capability to internalize – understanding any of that would mean they'd have to think some very uncomfortable thoughts about their own ideology, and the vast majority of them are fundamentally incapable of that sort of self-reflection.
I really think The Reactionary Mind should be required reading by leftists. It really helps to understand why conservatism is actively opposed to individual liberty and how they sell these regressive ideas to a population primed for them:
Conservatism, then, is not a commitment to limited government and liberty- or a wariness of change, a belief in evolutionary reform, or a politics of virtue. These may be the byproducts of conservatism, one or more of its historically specific and ever-changing modes of expression. But they are not its animating purpose. Neither is conservatism a makeshift fusion of capitalists, Christians, and warriors, for that fusion is impelled by a more elemental force- the opposition to the liberation of men and women from the fetters of their superiors, particularly in the private sphere. Such a view might seem miles away from the libertarian defense of the free market, with its celebration of the atomistic and autonomous individual. But it is not. When the libertarian looks out upon society, he does not see isolated individuals; he sees private, often hierarchical, groups, where a father governs his family and an owner his employees.
No simple defense of one's own place and privileges- the conservative, as I've said, may or may not be directly involved in or benefit from the practices of rule he defends; many, as we'll see, are not. The conservative position stems from a genuine conviction that a world thus emancipated will be ugly, brutish, base, and dull. It will lack the excellence of a world where the better man commands the worse. When Burke adds, in the letter quoted above, that the "great object" of the Revolution is “to root out that thing called an Aristocrat or Nobleman and Gentleman," he is not simply referring to the power of the nobility; he is also referring to the distinction that power brings to the world, If the power goes, the distinction goes with it. This vision of the connection between excellence and rule is what brings together in postwar America that unlikely alliance of the libertarian, with his vision of the employer's untrammeled power in the workplace; the traditionalist, with his vision of the father's rule at home; and the statist, with his vision of a heroic leader pressing his hand upon the face of the earth. Each in his way subscribes to this typical statement, fromn the nineteenth century, of the conservative Creed: “To obey a real superior.. is one of the most important of all virtues- a virtue absolutely essential to the attainment of anything great and lasting."
As stated in another comment, the vote is not what is foreboding about this. Enough crazy, radically charged, people believe and want Project 2025 and have been hearing calls to violence for years now, if the vote doesn’t go their way, not to sure they will be peaceful about it.
Oh I have no doubt there will be violence if Biden wins, but they've already said there will be violence against opponents if Trump wins, so I think all anyone can do is be prepared.
That’s true, but there aren’t enough of them to carry the election by themselves. They need enough moderates/swinging voters who will back them because they feel meh and it’s time for a change, and for this they need to avoid spooking them.
It’s not the election I’m worried about. It’s afterwards. The republicans have been charging their base up with a culture war, calls to violence are larger and louder. Even if Project 2025 pisses 80% of the population off to vote, there will still be those people charged and ready to go… I hope I am wrong, and they all pussy out and it’s a big nothing burger, but I can’t expect that in this crazy, fucked up timeline.
The republicans have been charging their base up with a culture war, calls to violence are larger and louder.
You are absolutely correct and it is fully intentional. The Kevin Roberts, president of the Heritage Foundation, the authors of Project 2025, said in an interview a few days ago, “We are in the process of the second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless ― if the left allows it to be.”
This is a thinly veiled threat. Let us have out way, or there will be blood. All the alt-Reich and MAGAts know exactly what he's telling them and they will not hesitate to bloody up anyone who gets in their way.
Is it even veiled at all?
Not a bit. I took it as a direct threat
The heritage foundation is an anti-american cancer that definitely needs to be cut out.
Yeah the MAGAs are a lost cause.
2020 was not a test run. It was a run. They failed, barely.
Even then, they had the 1776 Plan, a precursor to Project 2025, which called for violently seized in control of the state department and Supreme Court, in addition to the Capitol building. January 6th was an intentional, violent coup attempt that barely failed. And it failed for stupid things like, that one cop that led the mob away from the chamber, Mike Pence refusing to get into the car with secret service agents loyal to Trump, Andy Capitol Police refusal to remove the metal detectors from the mall. The 1776 Plan called for and had on hand multiple caches of weapons stashed in hotel rooms around the mall. Trump screamed at the secret service to the crowd to let the crowd bring their guns on that day.
It would have been interesting to see if the vote was not certified on January 6th. Whether the joint Chiefs letter from a few days later would have been sent. If you recall, The joint Chiefs letter made clear that on the constitutional end of term, Joe Biden would be the new president and Trump would be leaving the White House, one way or another.
Project 2025 is it attempt to make sure the sort of things that thwarted the coup attempt on January 6th cannot happen again. For example, Trump intends to fire anyone in the secret service or national security apparatus that is not a drooling Trump loyalist. Maybe next time the vice president's secret service will force him into the car. Maybe the next time the president won't have to tell Capitol Police not to take the metal detectors out of the mall because some stoogy will have already made sure they weren't there.
I mean the kind of dumbass fucking conspiracy theories that conservatives believe about Walmart being part of a federal government plan to round people up, and here you have it written out on paper that they plan to gut the public health apparatus to literally let millions of people die from diseases, because if we are all sick and dying, we will be much easier to subjugate.
We need to be better at getting the word out, but that costs money. The far right has unlimited money.
And, here's the thing: If they lose this one, they will keep trying every election from now until they win or are found to be breaking the law and sentenced to heavy time or death. So, it's not just this election folks need to vote--it's every election. This hasn't been stated, but the natural direction is that they will try to get folks into any position of power where they can further disenfranchise anyone who doesn't vote their way. I know that has been happening, but Project 2025 hasn't focused on that yet (to my knowledge).
And, here’s the thing: If they lose this one, they will keep trying every election from now until they win or are found to be breaking the law and sentenced to heavy time or death. So, it’s not just this election folks need to vote–it’s every election.
And the reason they keep not getting sentenced to heavy time or death is that enlightened-centrist liberals keep refusing to vigorously apply consequences (see also: Biden refusing to even consider SCOTUS reform, despite them literally just handing him the power to do anything he could possibly think of, up to and including having the fascist justices killed off and replaced). It's almost like they get off on edging fascism.
I think more dems are seeing that reforms need to be made. If democracy is expanded -especially in some way that abolishes gerrymandering or the two party system - the funds tying all these republicans into a single party will collapse for a time.
You see people like AOC willing to create consequences for the supreme court and people pushing constitutiomal amendments again. I expect if Biden wins again the next dem primary will be interesting. If he loses well, there's a good chance we'll become a one party system like russia at the federal level.
Sure, progressives/leftists see it, but they've been seeing it the whole time.
The trick is getting liberals to see it, and that shows pretty much no indication of happening despite the fact that the fascists are now even going so far as directly threatening to persecute them.
WHICH, my dear potential voters, is why we need to stop fucking arguing with one another and come together, dammit.
It's REALLY easy:
Stop being idiots.
Pressure Biden to use the recent Supreme Court decision to OUR advantage.
Vote Biden into office for another 4-years.
Continue to be fucking geniuses by holding hands and using those 4 years to fix shit.
If those on the Left actually stopped verbally measuring one another's dicks and stood united, they would be a force that the Right could not reckon with. The problem is so many of you keep strutting around, beaks in the air, making damned goose calls while collectively peeing into the wind and complaining that your pants keep getting wet.
I am worried about this entire dynamic.
So from now until infinity the Dems will (rightly) say Repubs are an existential threat, and that's all the reason you need to vote D. Then the Dems no longer need to aspire to anything for their voters, promise anything to their voters, and as long as the Dem voting base remains scared shitless, the Dems are no longer accountable.
The world that this creates is unappealing to say the least.
Anyone saying I just need to wait is going to be ignored.
Also I don't want to protest in sweltering climate changed heat while my foes fuck me over from their comfortably air-conditioned rooms.
I need strategies where my foes suffer more than I.
I think the Heritage asshole yelling about shooting people who resist hopefully gets people's blood up.
Biden may be old, but he is head and shoulders above a fascist government that will literally shoot you if you voice any concerns or complaints about it.
What this story reveals is the stunning level of ignorance amongst Americans at large. This is a bona fide fascist manifesto, published by the handlers of the current leading presidential candidate, over a year ago. Nothing rattles me to my core quite like being confronted by the harsh reality that a lot of people out there are just going about their lives like everything is fine.
These are the people we need to organize with in order to ― at this point ― basically survive, so I'm very glad something was able to spur them into some level of action before election day.
That said, and please excuse the momentary lapse into doomerism, but if we have to rely on Hollywood and celebrity culture to bring something of this magnitude into public awareness, we might be more thoroughly cooked than it was previously thought to be possible.
If Trump wins, this will go into effect and a white house backed coup will violently remove career employees that keep the government functioning.
This will end democracy and our nation as we know it. We'll overnight become Russia and probably start militarily supporting them. With the recent supreme court ruling, it gives the presidency carte blanche to commit any crimes while in office.
This election could be the end, people. Please vote.
Egad. Why are my fellow Americans so slow on the uptake?
Lemmy: This is rhetorical. I know a lot of the reasons.
McDonald's and Walmart are still open and PlayStation Network is still running.
Reminds me of the Korean zombie movie Alive, where the recluse gamer doesn't realise for days that there has been an apocalypse. Only when he loses connectivity does he look outside and realise.
At least it's before the election that they're getting the uptake. Might actually be in time to help something for once.
Too many people still don't realize Project 2025 is Mein Kampf 2.0
It contains every reason everyone would need to vote against him. At this point, its existence makes the decision a no-brainer.
Also, take note how the usual suspects that are always urging you to not vote against Trump are mysteriously absent on posts like this.
The guy from the Heritage Foundation that was seemingly in charge of writing the whole thing up recently said something along the lines of :
"This is a second American revolution, and it will remain bloodless, so long as the left allows it to."
I'll edit this in a bit with a source.
EDIT: I'm sorry, it was the President of the Heritage Foundation.
Here's the vid from CNN
And here's Sam Seder and Emma covering it:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-OdM4_WO2wk
EDIT 2:
Anyway, it is in no way backfiring. As with any (proto?) fascist movement looking to firmly establish itself within government, they need mainly to keep enthusiasm up amongst their core demo, while lying about what they are doing and plan to do to anyone who isn't friendly.
Throw in some mild criticism and voila, this provides, apparently, enough statements that it tricks professional journalists into thinking 'cracks are showing'.
I think p2025 is sufficiently terrifying that the democrats would be wise to hammer it everywhere. Just quote sections and call it a day.
Again,
The thing to remember about Project 2025 is that it has a 180 day execution window. This stuff will happen so fast it'll make your head spin.
You’re forgetting though that Trump isn’t a religious nut job, he is just using them to get what he wants. While he’ll happily be elevated to the level of a king he isn’t likely to outlaw adultery and having children out of wedlock.
If we want to go next level conspiracy theory, wait for the vice president to be announced. If its an ultra conservative, middle aged white man, Trump may only have minutes in office before he is tragically assassinated, and then Project 2025 will really kick off.
I feel like that's a bit backwards. The religious but jobs are using Trump to get what they want. He'll say or do anything if the price is right and a literal cult who'd eat the shit from his diaper if he told them to. He's the perfect puppet to enact Project 2025 with little pushback.