this post was submitted on 26 Jun 2024
129 points (86.4% liked)

Asklemmy

43739 readers
2211 users here now

A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions

Search asklemmy πŸ”

If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!

  1. Open-ended question
  2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
  3. Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
  4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
  5. An actual topic of discussion

Looking for support?

Looking for a community?

~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_[email protected]~

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 

I've hears stories of some Americans telling other people who are speaking a non-English language "This is America, speak English!" even if the conversation has nothing to do with them. Why do they do this?

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 121 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Because those Americans are entitled, insecure, ignorant, xenophobic assholes.

[–] [email protected] 48 points 4 months ago (4 children)

Just like any other asshole who gets mad about this. It isn't a uniquely American attitude.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Just as there are two kind of race, white and political; and there are two kinds of gender, male and political; there also are two kinds of language, English and political.

[–] [email protected] 90 points 4 months ago (6 children)

It's called xenophobia, the fear and dislike of anything foreign. Some people believe that if your group isn't dominant it will be dominated, and peaceful coexistence isn't possible between different groups.

These people are afraid that, if the English language isn't forced onto other people, one day other people will force a foreign language onto them.

load more comments (6 replies)
[–] [email protected] 66 points 4 months ago (3 children)

They are bigoted and racist.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

What gets me is when they complain about Spanish, a European language. Where does English come from, you may ask? Oh right! Europe!

So they're proud of speaking a language that's not even 'Merican. Learn Navajo, Comanche, or any of the several native American languages, then we'll talk.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 59 points 4 months ago (15 children)

This is not an American thing. People around the world are biased against immigrants.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 4 months ago (1 children)

It's not JUST an American thing. People are biased against outsiders and people that are different.

Ftfy

[–] [email protected] 13 points 4 months ago

No. That's not a fix. You're still focusing on this being American, while it is pretty universal.

load more comments (14 replies)
[–] [email protected] 40 points 4 months ago (2 children)

You will understand why better when you take a look at who they say this to and who they don't.

This is not something that generally happens to white people speaking some French in the US. It does not raise the ire of this psychology. On the other hand, they love to target brown people speaking Spanish (almost exclusively, in fact). There is, naturally, spillover where white people speaking Spanish or brown people speaking Hindi would get targeted.

As others noted, and as these examples suggest, this is an instance of xenophobia and racism. Language is being used as a proxy, really, and provides a way for these people to unleash the frustrations they have been taught, societally, to have against them. Generally speaking, these are people that will call any brown person that speaks Spanish a "Mexican" regardless of their actual place of birth, where they were raised, or ethnic heritage.

But this is just a surfacr-level analysis. The next question is why they are taught to target people with xenophobia and racism. Why are there institutions of white supremacy? Why are their institutions of anti-immigrant sentiment? How are they materially reinforced? Who gains and who loses?

At a deeper level, these social systems are maintained because they are effective forms of marginalization. In the United States, racial marginalization was honed in the context of the creation and maintenance of chattel slavery, beginning, more or less, as a reaction to the multi-racial Bacon's Rebellion. In response, the ruling class introduced racially discriminatory policies so that the rebelling groups were divided by race, with black people receiving the worst treatment and the white people (the label being invented for the purposes of these kinds of policies) being told they would receive a better deal (though it was only marginally so and they were still massively mistreated). This same basic play had been repeated and built upon for hundreds of years in the United States. It was used to maintain chattel slavery, Jim Crow, and modern anti-blackness. It was used to prevent Chinese immigrant laborers from becoming full citizens and becoming a stronger political influence in Western states.

It was and is used to maintain the labor underclass of the United States, which also brings us to xenophobia more specifically. The United States functions by ensuring there is a large pool of exploitable labor in the form of undocumented immigrants. It does this at the behest of the ruling class - the owners of businesses - who have much more power to dictate wages and working conditions when it comes to this labor underclass. They make more money and have more control, basically. But this pissed off and pisses off the labor over class, as they have lost these jobs (or sometimes are merely told they lost them even if they never worked them). To deflect blame away from the ruling class for imposing these working conditions wages, the ruling class instead drives focus against the labor underclass itself, as if working that job for poor pay and bad conditions their fault. This cudgel should remind you of Bacon's Rebellion again: it divides up workers so that rather than struggle together they fight amongst themselves on the basis of race or national origin. The business owners are pleased, having a docile workforce to exploit.

So while racism and xenophobia are themselves horrific and what is behind the "Speak English!' crowd, it is really just an expression of the society created by this system that, by its very nature , pits workers against business owners while giving business owners outsized power (they are the ruling class, after all).

Another important element to this is imperialism and how imperialist countries carefully control immigration (it used to be basically open borders not that long ago). But I'll leave that for any follow-up questions you might have.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 4 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 16 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Sure but I've gotta ask: why not write 7 paragraphs of run-on sentences like a true proletarian!?

[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 months ago

πŸ˜‚ why waste time say lot word when few meme do trick

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 33 points 4 months ago

It's good old-fashioned xenophobia and is by no means unique to Americans or English-speakers even in the modern era. Anyone who has spent enough time in certain parts of France, Italy, or Belgium has probably encountered it at some point.

It's everywhere but it is probably most prevalent in countries with a strong nationalist core and, in my opinion, ironically occurs most often in countries that have really fucked around with having an empire in the last century or so.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 4 months ago (1 children)

because racist people are stupid and ignorant

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 26 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Happens in every country and in every nation. This isn't a strictly American issue

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Yep, went to france to learn french, was questioned (by an idiot) why I didn't knew (spoke) french well.

They exist in all countries.

Edit: learn, not kearn...

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Don't you DARE speak French in France unless you're a native speaker!

That country is the reverse complaint put forth in this thread.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 26 points 4 months ago

Xenophobia.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 4 months ago

They can't be nosey if they can't understand you.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 4 months ago

Some people are shit

[–] [email protected] 15 points 4 months ago

As a kid I worked fast food for a few years, and there was an "English only" on the line where customers could hear. One of our managers was Mexican, and actually enforced this pretty strongly. He once told us about when he went to a Subway and the staff was speaking what he suspected was Hindi, and explained to us all that yeah, it matters sense, you tend to get upset when you can't understand people. They could be saying anything, making fun of you without your knowing, or whatever.

I tend to just ignore other languages (I'm in Chicagoland, there's plenty of them) and an of the opinion that lack of exposure is one of the root causes of ethnic (and of other kinds of) intolerance. A lot of Americans live in their little rural bubbles where everything is samey and familiar, dealing with their little isolated lives, away from anyone noticably different than themselves. They're tribalistic and comfortable there, and don't like outsiders or change. They vote Republican because "people from the city" are bad, and they're Democrats.

It's not a new problem. The root philosophy in the fucking Bible is that "city people are immoral" because its all passed down by oral tradition, and its oldest stories are descended from periods when its creators were nomadic herders. Hospitality for them vs. urban hospitality are very different, and of course anecdotes get mutated through centuries of the telephone game.

TL;DR, lots of people need to meet more kinda of people and it's been a problem since forever.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I find the type of people that get angry at those that don’t speak English, usually have not a single interesting thing about them so they use English as an excuse to feel superior. It’s funny because the type to get angry at another language, rarely can speak English better than a 4th grade level.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 months ago

I remember smoking outside a pub near Chinatown with a mate something like ten years ago when two Chinese people went by speaking Chinese, and he said "they should be speaking English; this is Britain," so I asked why, and he couldn't explain why. Just on a vague principle.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 months ago
[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 months ago

Because anytime someone speaks a foreign language in their presence they must me talking bad about them. After all its what they would do.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

We have this reputation here in Quebec to be generally angry at people who are not speaking French when visiting. I've never experienced nor was witness of it, but I believe it when I hear people say they've had issues with some of us Quebs too. We have our fair share of idiots, like most nations.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 months ago

Fear... At the bottom of it is always fear

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago

Ignorance. The US doesn't even have an official language lol

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago (5 children)

americans dont seem to understand there is an entire world outside of their country

load more comments (5 replies)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago

This happens in other countries as well. I've been told to speak the local (non-English) language when visiting friends overseas when having a private conversation.

Generally, it seems to be nosy old people who are upset about not being able to eavesdrop

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago

Because in America we believe strongly in our rights: specifically the right to tell people they don't have the right to speak any language they want. It's called freedom man!

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago (4 children)

Very few people have that opinion.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

We're British imperialists at the end if the day. We traveled across the seas to a new continent and destroyed it for... So little benefit

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I do not give 2 shits about people speaking foreign languages out in the ether for the most part. Having said that, there are 2 instances I can think of that grind my gears.

  1. You order an Uber, and the guy who's driving is on the phone with someone, and is speaking another language with them the whole time. This is more just for the fact that this is shitty customer service for someone who works on tips to an extent. For whatever reason, this seems to only be an issue with foreign speaking people. My guess is maybe they're talking to family back home? I certainly don't tip those people who are doing it, but I don't care enough to call them out on it either.

  2. As a poker player, they have rules about speaking English only at the table. This prevents collusion. I will absolutely call people out for English only at the table especially when there is a live hand going on.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 months ago

For the first point really no matter what language they are using on the phone it's bad service regardless. There already have been enough studies that says talking on a phone do still distract you from driving and makes it more dangerous.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago

Because humans are assholes. That's it, the entire reason.

load more comments
view more: next β€Ί