this post was submitted on 15 Dec 2023
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There are a million sites one can go for camgirls and strip teases, and Twitch shouldn't be one of them. It's a site about gaming streams. The only reason Twitch did this in the first place is to try and save face when people accused them of disproportionately banning female streamers. It was a bad move from the start.
Dunno, I've been using twitch since it was Justintv, it used to be a site about pay per view streams, free satellite TV and sometimes porn.
Which is not "artistic nudity". Unless you are one of those loonies who protests outside of museums.
Rather than actually moderate the people abusing it because GASP women might wear something other than a burka*, it just became a blanket ban like it used to be. Except video games still get the exception because God specifically wrote on the ten commandments that we are allowed to see dick and titties in a GTA but can never see one in a painting.
*: Seriously. How do those fucks survive walking down the street? Let alone going to a beach
To be fair Rockstar was really the company that normalized nudity in games. Not that is is normalized, I can only think of a handful of companies that have done it in mainstream games. Cd project red gamed and that Conan exiles or whatever mmo where you get a dick? Honestly can't think of others.
Like most things, "eurojank" and PC games had been doing it for decades since then. In large part because, once you get out of the US, nudity is just a thing as opposed to THE GREATEST THREAT TO HUMANITY BECAUSE BABY JESUS!!!!
Like, I have seen plenty of clips of streamers learning that playing older FMV games is a minefield for that reason. And those tend to be more "discretionary" rather than "We have decided that you can see Astarion's dick"
This is a very Eurocentric statement. Many other countries in the world actually have more restrictive rules and mores around nudity than the US does.
But personally I think nudity should be protected as part of the human right to free expression.
Like Saudi Arabia, yes.
Also China and India, so like a quarter to a third of the world's population
Note that they're all culturally conservative, oppressive places though.
Nudity has been normalized in video games since at least Custer's Revenge for the Atari 2600, if not earlier.
Shout-out to Seanbaby's amazing review of this game (among others)
http://www.seanbaby.com/nes/nes/egm09.htm
First of all, it was under Twitch's version of "artistic nudity" which is part of why they rescinded the statement
And you either allow something or you don't. Part of the reason this whole fiasco happened is because Twitch wasn't very clear on what was and wasn't allowed. If you allow artistic nudity paintings, what's going to stop people from saying hentai is just artistic nudity? Or AI generated porn, like the article was talking about? It's a pain in the ass, and Twitch isn't the place for it despite the discussion anyways...
You use similar rules to how video games are allowed. Or like how art actually is handled
Because, if you go to an art museum? Odds are you are going to see a nipple and maybe even some breastfeeding (the scandal of it all!). Hell, you might even see stuff like the fisherman's wife and the like. But you probably aren't going to see gaping vag and people riding sybians.
Believe it or not, it isn't a hard problem when people act in good faith. Rather than just immediately noping out because a bunch of assholes are too immature to understand that "artistic nudity" is actually a concept.
The commenter is being a jerk, but you're misinterpreting the point they're trying to make. Twitch has a had a lot of issues with rules enforcement since the introduction of the 'Just Chatting' section when it comes to sexual content. What's considered acceptable has only ever been nebulously defined in the TOS really.
Because of this a lot of disproportionate bans have happened on women simply for existing, largely affecting smaller streamers because large ones generally just get a slap on the wrist. On the other side of the spectrum the rules have also allowed for a lot of loopholes being taken advantage of, like for example the hottub craze. The other commenter is not exaggerating when they are saying that people stream themselves pole dancing and doing strip teases.
Whether you agree or disagree on the level of sexualization that should be allowed on the platform, what's considered acceptable use definitely needs to be more rigidly defined for the benefit of everyone.
The "TOS" has consistently been misogynistic. It took how long to even pretend to make guys put shirts on? And they still regularly refuse to and nothing happens.
But a woman wearing a tube top and not making it explicitly clear that she is fully clothed out of frame? End of the fucking world and all the "I am gonna test the waters to get that kick bag" streamers needed to chime in and start a holy war.
I think the rules that just got rolled back were an AWESOME start. They needed refining, but it solved the issue of "I really don't want to see hot tub streams on the front page" while also acting like adults. And the response to people pushing the boundaries in bad faith was to roll it all back and see if they can mail out some twitch branded burkas to every female presenting streamer on the platform.
While I have more than a few issues with his response (mostly because he is "friends" and business partners with a lot of those "so... how much of that tate bag can I get and will kick pay me for it?" streamers...), Ludwig's response to this a day or two ago was pretty spot on. Youtube already has this shit and nobody cares. The key is just to keep it off the front page, which these rules did. Then just drill down and refine the rules to let people know how far they can push it while the actual artists do whatever.
I'm not saying there's no such thing as artistic nudity, I'm saying that believe it or not Twitch ISN'T a curated art museum and believe it or not people DID use it in bad faith to make pole dancing streams, strip teasing streams, streams where they generate nude AI images, etc.
That's hilarious, because calling everyone who doesn't agree with you an asshole isn't a good faith argument
Log off and come back when you can make a discussion without calling someone an asshole or incel
What discussion can be had when a single nipple is the equivalent to a tentacle ganbang and people are genuinely afraid of the human body?
At least this way I highlight how completely asinine the bad faith "How can you have any art when people are going to draw veiny dicks on tentacles? DELETE IT ALL!" is as an "argument".
No one in this thread is arguing for that, it's literally just you screaming it and calling everyone an incel.
I get that reading comprehension being at an all time low is a major issue facing humanity and all but please try to put some effort in if you are going to interact on a predominantly text based message board.
I really hope you're just having a bad day and that you don't actually engage in conversation like that usually.
Your description of twitch makes me suspect you haven't even used it.
There is nothing wrong with nudity.
People clutching their pearls about it is the problem.
There's a big fucking difference between basic nudity and sexualized content, and I'm exhausted by people like you pretending there isn't and that this is some sort of puritamical crusade against the bodies that we all have.
It's some disingenuous bullshit that I'm having a harder time believing isn't intentional muddying of the waters by coom brained porn addicts the more I hear it repeated.
If you think that plain nudity made twitch rescind this, or that the majority of people against this shit are against nudity itself, you're sorely mistaken. I'm tired of sexualized content fucking everywhere, especially on video sites like youtube and Twitch that have content that targets children (most game streams and video content) right the hell next to people doing bikini jumping jacks in the shower.
Porn exists. I enjoy it. I don't need the lines blurred between it and other content by people out to make a quick buck off the pathetic people being tricked into paying for it by parasocial grifting.
Context matters, and Twitch already had a glut of streamers using it purely as an on ramp to their OnlyFans and other paypig sites before this harebrained shit.
Fucking on the money. (actually.. literally)
Exactly.
If you can't tell the difference between nudity and sexual content, maybe it's time you cut back on the jerking off.
Context matters.
This is all I need to read from that essay.
Thank you for self selecting out of the discussion, although I don't understand your need to broadcast it.
Legitimately confused here. Did you think making this comment would make you look cool, get you upvotes or something?
Adds nothing to the conversation unless you're willing to expand on why that phrase affected you the way it did.
Fuck it. Lets throw some sass. Did it hit too close to home, or do you just assume there's enough people who have the same views as you that they'll understand your vague as hell attempt to throw shade?
Lol so every site should feature nudity now? Will you be happy when Twitch turns into onlyfans? As if there aren't enough places on the internet someone can go to for showing off their body.
Unless it's specifically marketed at children, every site should be able to show nudity, yes. We're all human beings with the same parts; let's get over ourselves already.
Yikes, you're projecting so hard
If you don't want to see it don't look.
How about if you want to see it, go look for it? You're really suggesting they should add nudity on my feed and I should just look away?
Maybe you haven't noticed, but there's plenty of nudity on Lemmy. Do you just ignore it here?
Or do you instead block instances, subscribe to those you're interested in, and otherwise leverage tools to avoid content you don't want to see?
Just like that. I don't think many people are arguing that some cam girl's asshole should be displayed uncensored on the front page of Twitch. I'd argue that they should keep the default experience tame, but allow its users to choose what they want -- or don't want -- to see through settings and features.
Yeah I don't use Twitch but I'm confused why they don't require streamers to, like, tag their content with what it is. Not just for sex stuff, but generally. Have tags for like Realistic Violence, Cartoon Violence, Nudity, Musicals, Sexual content, etc, and then let the users (and advertisers) pick what tags they care about.
Then they can have enforcement around "You only tagged yourself Cartoon Mischief and had a hardcore anal scene - That's a breach". That seems like a simpler problem that would work for everyone. If you don't want to see porn, just block the tag. That's kind of how Steam works. They have porn games and I just don't see them because I blocked the tag.
That is basically what the policy was.
The content tags are increasingly becoming a thing but are mostly handled on a per game level. So if Space Marine has dismemberment, there would theoretically be "dismemberment" listed in the content warning list for a stream that has set their game to Space Marine. I assume this is just pulled from the ESRB/european version database, but not sure. "Mature" game means it doesn't show up on the front page and you get a warning when you click in.
What this is rolling back was a similar approach being taken for nudity. Streamers would tag that they may have sexualized content or nudity on screen and it takes them off the front page and provides similar warnings.
So what happened was a bunch of assholes decided to go batshit insane to "protest" this and get it rolled back. Which means, funny enough, the hot tub streams and the like are once again front page eligible.
Did they do exactly that yesterday?
You are still alive today so what's your problem?
Hard to reason with pearl clutchers afraid of what their gods gave them
Yes, thay's totally what's going on here. I shudder whenever I need to use the restroom, because I can't bear the thought of catching a glimpse of my own genitals. Every morning shower is a panic attack. Intimate moments with my wife are a traumatic blur of shame and disgust.
Or maybe, just fucking maybe, there's a massive goddamn difference between plain nudity and sexualized content and twitch has already shown many many times that it can't be trusted to moderate that distinction.
Fucking hell this is exhausting. There's incredibly few people opposed to this due to puritanical concepts of "dear god not a female nipple!", and a shit ton of people tired of the constant forward march of increasing sexualization of everything. Y'all need to stop fighting imaginary enemies.
If you want to jerk it to something there is more porn available for free online than anyone could consume in a lifetime.
I dont even watch twictch, but look how bent out of shape you are on this subject.
If sex scares you, idk what to say fam. Every animal, fungi, plant, etc all do it. Its ok if people are entertained by it.
You and 8 other people care very loudly, we get it.