this post was submitted on 11 Apr 2025
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Normally, investors rush into Treasurys at a whiff of economic chaos but now they are selling them as not even the lure of higher interest payments on the bonds is getting them to buy. The freak development has experts worried that big banks, funds and traders are losing faith in America as a good place to store their money.

“The fear is the U.S. is losing its standing as the safe haven,” said George Cipolloni, a fund manager at Penn Mutual Asset Management. “Our bond market is the biggest and most stable in the world, but when you add instability, bad things can happen.”

That could be bad news for consumers in need of a loan — and for President Donald Trump, who had hoped his tariff pause earlier this week would restore confidence in the markets.

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[–] [email protected] 99 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

This is arguably bigger news than the stock market.

[–] [email protected] 46 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

It definitely is. If bonds don't sell, or at least no longer sell cheap, then the US might get bigger problems with their budget.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 weeks ago

republicunts plans to finance rich people tax cuts with additional debt in shambles

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 weeks ago

If US Bonds are no longer the de facto safe haven asset...

The USD is no longer the world's de facto reserve currency.

That means that even if all the tariffs were rescinded, Trump croaked and somehow JD Vance took a 'be at least somewhat more competent and less stupid' pill, and never reinstated them...

Well it would mean the dollar would crash against other currencies, we wouldn't be able to import anywhere near as much, and US international debt payments as a percentage of the yearly budget would climb fast.

... And then that could spiral into both massive austerity at home, and/or 'lol we are defaulting on our international debt' either by formal declaration, or... basically hyperinflation.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Bond sales are only politically connected to the budget; not financially. Not selling bonds would in no way hinder congress from passing a budget.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I'm no expert but it seems to me if the yields have to go up to get buyers, it's like raising the interest rates on a loan. You can still get the loan but you have to buy less car/house if you want to afford the payments.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

You're mostly right.

Most T Bills and Bonds... they don't work like a credit card or a home loan.

Those are things you pay a bit on every month, and the interest rate is an APR, which means Annualized Percentage Rate, which means the monthly interest rate you are paying is the APR divided by 12.

So with those, the bank gets money every month untill you pay it all off.

With Bonds... say a 5 year Bond... you pay for the Bond, newly issued by the US govt, and 5 years later, you hand it back to them, and they pay you the face value + interest rate.

But, people who have already bought a bond, well they can sell it again, before it matures, to... some other guy, some other country, some other firm.

Thats called the 'secondary market', and most of the time you hear a news story about bond prices and yields, its a second party selling a bond to a third party.

Generally, when the US does an issuance auction of new debt directly... well, it has to generally track the prices and yields set by the various secondary markets, sorta like how you'd wanna check a car salesman's price against kelly blue book to make sure you're getting a reasonable deal.

There were moments in thr GFC, 07 08 09, where US debt auctions ... didn't actually result in the amount of bonds expected to sell, actually selling, because there were enough potential bond buyers who assessed that the US was offering unreasonable prices and yields, given the economic turmoil.

... I am not an 'expert' either, but I do actually have a BSc in Econ, and I apparently remember a good deal of my courses, and enjoy infodumping lol.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

The prices and yields of bonds have an inverse relationship:

If price goes down, yield goes up.

The yield is also known as the interest rate.

This interest rate * the purchase price is paid by the US government to the bondholder at the end of the duration of its term.

When you look at the US Federal budget, and see the amount that goes toward making debt payments...

This, bonds, are a very big part of what you are looking at.

If the interest rate on US debt instruments are going up... that means more and more of the budget has to be allocated toward debt repayment.

While yes, extremely directly, bond yields rising doesn't... mechanically make the passing of a budget impossible in some kind of procedural way...

It very much makes the stakes higher as now our growing debt problem is growing even faster.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 weeks ago

Waaaay biger news

Can't fund that big bad military when all those dollars go the pay off those bonds.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 weeks ago

I sold some bonds 3 days ago. I just don't trust this administration won't default on something in the next 6 months. Or do something else to drop out AAA rating.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 weeks ago

Preventing this was originally what people thought was causing him to pause