this post was submitted on 11 Apr 2025
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Yes even Bernie

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[–] [email protected] 71 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

The two-party system is not fake, it's a very real inevitability of FPtP voting.

For example: This 60-second animation shows how divided Congress has become over the last 60 years

Ignoring that also turns everything to the right (if not through actual voting, through lower turnout).

[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The two party system is inevitable under FPTP, true. But that does not mean change is impossible. The Tea Party managed to take over the Republican Party from the inside out.

We need a Guillotine Party to do the same thing to the Democratic Party.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 week ago (5 children)

I'm not seeking to defend FPTP, butf the two party system is inevitable, how come the UK has 393 political parties? It's true that one of two parties usually wins, but against that backdrop, the SNP was able to flourish in Scotland. In America you literally have Republican, Democratic parties and Independents. It is not inevitable but it certainly isn't a good system for the modern age.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 week ago

I don't care to defend that point. The point I am focused on is Guillotine Party.

Whether we eliminate FPTP or not; whether we develop a third party or not, the leadership and ~~Billionaire~~ Problem Class needs to be removed from all parties.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 week ago

I don't know much about UK elections, but from what I see on Wikipedia it deploys different voting systems and even fptp is really a fptp system + party list so not exactly the same.

In US there truly is just a single election where you give a single vote for the candidate and whomever gets more votes wins.

Yes, there are primary elections too, but those aren't real elections, they are elections run by the parties to pick up their candidate. They actually could not hold election and just pick up the candidate themselves and that's what they often do for a second term.

The way it works with FPTP in US is that it naturally forces two parties, as you generally are forced to vote against someone and not for someone. This is because of there are two good candidates and one bad, the vote splits and the bad candidate wins due to spoiler effect. So people try to predict which candidates will likely win and vote for the lesser evil.

So no one in 3rd party has any chance, and generally most of the times the people who are running 3rd party are just pathetic.

Sometimes when a serious candidate runs in 3rd party it generally spoils for the candidate with similar views. That's how Bill Clinton won against HW Bush

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 week ago

I would guess it's because the size and complexity of the country, coupled with both sides cracking down hard on ballot access to third parties does that.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 week ago

The SNP flourished in Scotland because the Scottish parliament has a proportional representation system (ironically chosen to keep the SNP out of power). Their success in the Scottish Parliament helped get them when contesting FPTP in Westminster.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 week ago

Some parts of those governments do have proportional representation (like Scottish Parliment where the SNP has the most representation).

Other than that, I would guess there are a lot of small reasons... like differences in structure/operation/rules, that recall elections are a thing, larger gov't bodies, and election frequency. From the outside, I'd also guess that some of these parties do/have held power for a while until they mess things up and the voters switch it out.

Also a lot of the issue here is with US presidency, and the electoral college cements it even further. That is where it is the biggest inevitability as it's a big race that largely decides the next 4 years (also a partisan senate and house can enable or stall legislature, also how the right stacked the supreme court).

This is also a long-term imbalance (as shown by the video I linked) that intensifies over time. Other systems having different factors may be what prevented it from being a huge issue there, and it probably helps that they are older/more-stable (and less individualistic) countries.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 week ago (2 children)

This 60-second animation shows how divided Congress has become over the last 60 years

Of course it worsened visibly with Reagan.

Incidentally, I mildly disagree with OP's analogy. Yes, the wheel is turning further to the right, yes, the democrats aren't doing enough to stop or even wheel it back, but there's no spring coil in the wheel, it wouldn't snap back by itself if you removed the blue from the picture. That's bullshit.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

It worsened visibly with the dixiecrat switch, because they are a single issue voting bloc (racism).

They actually tried to run as a third party, but the dixiecrat party lost in 48, having failed to spoil truman. Thurmond's speeches here are quite profound.

The problem is that we have a voting bloc that literally wants only one thing, and it's concrete, not a vague notion of Healthcare and reducing income inequality with no concrete steps and massive, united opposing interests.

Maybe get minorities to appreciate how many dixiecrats vote the way they do only because they see non-whites as animals?

Doubtful. I didn't believe it myself till I lived there, the level of hate is just impossible to fathom.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago

Considering almost every single group of people supports progressive policies, and the fact that the policies that are most important to the median citizen are completely ignored by congress means that yes, if a leftist party was allowed to take power the wheel would snap back very far to the left.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 week ago

Plenty of awful capitalist controlled democracys have different voting systems and multiple parties and are still following America's lead into Fascism.

This was maybe a thing to care about a decade or two ago.