As an American, I agree.
this post was submitted on 05 Oct 2023
362 points (95.9% liked)
World News
32077 readers
977 users here now
News from around the world!
Rules:
-
Please only post links to actual news sources, no tabloid sites, etc
-
No NSFW content
-
No hate speech, bigotry, propaganda, etc
founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
As a Brit, I agree too. Europe is incapable of defending an allied nation within our own continent from invasion. We need to do better.
The military capability of European nations have to improve so we can guarantee our own security and be a more equal partner in NATO rather than a junior partner to the US.
You run into the weird issue, what if America can’t or won’t help.
Right now everyone depends on America to defend them but we may not always be able too.
The moment America cannot act as the unilateral head of NATO is the moment it collapses.
France, Germany, The U.K. and Turkey would then become the defacto " great" powers of Europe and the whole balance of power in the E.U. would be thrown off.
Not likely to happen for the time being, but if Trump somehow manages to get elected again the Europeans would be wise to consider their alternative options.
load more comments
(11 replies)
I agree. But there's so much to do for a EU defense... GB is aligned with the US. Germany and a few other countries are entirely trusting the US. Hungary would probably side with Russia at this point.
I wish the war kick-started eu defense better.
load more comments
(2 replies)
As an American, I've mixed feelings.
On the one hand, I think I think Europe owning it's own defense would be a solid move to ensure it's own sovereignty and independence as a modern nation.....thing.
On the other hand, I fear this could lead to US - EU military rivalry. While not necessarily the strongest bond in the world, I do value the relatively positive relationship the US and EU have. I hope that bond is preserved and hope we can grow even closer over time.
nation…..thing
we prefer the term "sui generis geopolitical entity" ;)
load more comments
(1 replies)
load more comments
(1 replies)
Yeah, if we stopped being the world's police we might have tax money for something else.
load more comments
(1 replies)
As an American, I think my government has become WAY too inconsistent and unreliable. We might elect Trump again, ffs. America can’t be counted on to meet its NATO obligations anymore. Too many fascists are in positions of power and sympathize with Putin.
As a human being i think you have become incosistent and unreliable too. Lean history, see what's happening around you, think with your own brain.
That implies you considered me consistent and reliable in the past. I’m flattered.
load more comments
(20 replies)
Europe shouldn't let it's home-grown defence industries languish in the name of strategic cohesion. Europe has no domestic competition to the F-35, no cohesive military procurement strategy that rewards European businesses, and no mechanism to avoid the shitshow of being entirely dependent on US defence contractors for maintenance of key defence infrastructure.
It also doesn't have access to nearly as many raw materials as the United States does.
I wish we'd all just calm down with the military spending, but I also understand when dealing with the USA it's probably safer to not rely on then(us) to keep their(our) word
Trump's presidency certainly showed that the US is one election away from balking. I'm pretty sure that's Putin's plan in Ukraine now.
I hope they have no competition to the F-35 because everyone’s been saying it’s a piece of shit for the last fifteen years.
I think the situation is more nuanced than that.
Of course, the F-35 program was an incredibly expensive mess (litterally the most expensive weapon program of all time), because of conflicting specs, data leaks, political infighting, cost overruns which are the stuff of legend, etc... At some moments, there were certainly reasons to think the whole program would collapse on itself like wet tissue paper.
But there are operational F35 now. 900+ as of 2023, which is 4 time more than the rest of Gen 5 fighters combined. And performance-wise, it is good, especially on the stealth & avionics parts. On the other side, the J-20 is largely unproven (probably a decent design, but not as good), and the Su-57 is a bunch of glorified prototypes.
Now sure, cost is high, maintenance is time-consuming, availability somewhat below target, but it's not particularly surprising for high-performance equipment. It may fall short of the ambition of the program on the cost part, but by itself it's a dangerous and fully operational fighter.
load more comments
(1 replies)
load more comments
(6 replies)
load more comments
(1 replies)
Hey this is the guy who said that all Russian citizens living abroad should be surveiled and cited Japanese internment camps as precedent.
“I can be sorry for these people, but at the same time when we look back, when the Second World War started, all the Japanese population living in the United States were under a strict monitoring regime as well,” said the Czech president. “That’s simply a cost of war.”
He's probably not doing this in the interests of peace, he's probably doing it because he wants to launch a race war against the Mongolian horde and the US won't play ball.
The US loves killing brown people especially on behalf of other white people.
Are you even American? /s
load more comments
(3 replies)
lmao there's always a rogue president who says this while the rest of the EU falls in line with Washington
He's not advocating Europe separate from the US, but become a military superpower in its own right by having as large a military as the US. I am sure both Petr Pavel and Joe Biden agree on enforcing the "rules-based international order".
To think that the EU suddenly wants to ditch the US because they see them as a burden/dangerous is wishful thinking. In fact the only countries willing to do that might be France, because the local bourgeois don't like to be limited by the US on pursuing their imperialist interests in Africa.
Idk anything about this fella, but that snow white hair and beard look fuckin fresh
Yet on the other hand, he says EU should hurry up at expanding and integrate Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia and others. He's pro-NATO, he just thinks the EU should have more of the muscle. Either that or he's just entirely full of shit.
Yet on the other hand, he says EU should hurry up at expanding and integrate Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia and others.
I don't understand how expanding EU is contradicting the headline. Care to explain?
EU/NATO are vassals and part of the same empire as America/UK. Basically, they're all the same side. My point is that if you're against NATO imperialism, this guy isn't who you're looking for. He just wants to be a bit less junior of a partner in the empire.
Jokes on him and the EU though, they're even more junior than ever before and getting further vassalized and de-industrialized and dependent on the USA.
Lots of euro leaders have said the same over the years. The question as always is, what will you do about it?
Well PESCO did get created. Denmark dropped their opt out from CSDP. Stuff like this moves slowly, specially upon there not being single hegemonic leader saying "We do this" and everyone else answering "Yes boss". EU is herding catch and it makes everything move slowly.
view more: next ›