this post was submitted on 19 Feb 2024
179 points (96.9% liked)

Australia

3579 readers
146 users here now

A place to discuss Australia and important Australian issues.

Before you post:

If you're posting anything related to:

If you're posting Australian News (not opinion or discussion pieces) post it to Australian News

Rules

This community is run under the rules of aussie.zone. In addition to those rules:

Banner Photo

Congratulations to @[email protected] who had the most upvoted submission to our banner photo competition

Recommended and Related Communities

Be sure to check out and subscribe to our related communities on aussie.zone:

Plus other communities for sport and major cities.

https://aussie.zone/communities

Moderation

Since Kbin doesn't show Lemmy Moderators, I'll list them here. Also note that Kbin does not distinguish moderator comments.

Additionally, we have our instance admins: @[email protected] and @[email protected]

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
179
It’s true, Kelly Wilkinson was cop shopping. She was looking for a Queensland cop who cared | Lucy Clark (www.theguardian.com)
submitted 8 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
31 comments fedilink hide all child comments
all 36 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 27 points 8 months ago (3 children)

Women are the victims so the system obviously hates women and women have all the answers is such a braindead take.

Children are also the victims; should we be asking them to solve this problem? Does the system hate children?

The problem is with men, with a system and society that treats men like shit at their lowest points in life and is constantly shocked when those men lash out.

I say this as a survivor of domestic abuse so severe that it would horrify you. As a child I didn’t have any answers because I wasn’t equipped to even understand the source of the problem.

Should the police have gotten off their asses and done their jobs to prevent this woman’s death? Absolutely and NOTHING absolves the police of this failing.

Police also failed to stop what my father was doing. It was a court appointed psychologist and doctors who finally listened to him that changed his behaviour.

Men need help. Helping men will make everyone safer.

Help men and they WILL be better, this is a demonstrable fact based on violence declining with social safety nets and resources for men.

Also fuck the police. ACAB and you can bank on at least one of those cops she asked for help being a wife beating POS.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Women are the victims so the system obviously hates women and women have all the answers is such a braindead take.

The article doesn't really say this though.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Read between the lines a little when one of the suggestions is women only police stations staffed exclusively with women.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

What's wrong with that?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago (1 children)

It does nothing to address the root cause, it only seeks to treat a symptom.

Also when was the last time that more police solved a problem like domestic violence?

The stock market has more impact on DV than police numbers do. Trying to solve a problem with a solution that you know doesn't work is just insane.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

So what services would you recommend funding for people in Kelly Wilkinson's position? Where would you have told Kelly Wilkinson to go to get help?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

A domestic violence emergency fund which provides transport, safe housing, cash, pauses all debts, provides a lawyer and triggers employer obligations.

This fund would be a zero proof on accessing scheme to prevent instances like Kelly Wilkinson being turned away.

Literally a fund for people in fear of their life to escape to safety and then be able to properly engage someone who can advise them on navigating the legal system.

Not some clueless case worker, or cop who insists the victim didn't say the magic words, a lawyer with all their legal obligations towards their clients.

Yet my point stands; the system should be setup to prevent as many instances of DV from ever occuring as possible. Prevention is always better than treating symptoms.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I think you should have included this or something like this as an alternative proposal to women only police stations in your first comment, alongside your other proposals and insights into preventative measures.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago

Fair, I was responding to the broader issue in my original comment and not the specific circumstances.

Your question was a good one. It made me consider what options being available might have convinced my mother to listen when I was begging her to take us and leave.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago (2 children)

So, women and children are the most common victims of domestic abuse. Your solution to this is to coddle the men who beat, abuse, and murder their families? Because they have been “treated like shit”? If a fox keeps killing my chickens, I’m not going to ask the fox for advice on how to protect the coop.

Buddy, EVERYBODY is treated like shit by society these days. But most of us don’t take it out on our families and loved ones. 99% of us feel let down by the system, yet manage to not tie our partners to clotheslines and set them on fucking fire.

The absolute shitstains that can’t wrap their head around the idea that their pain doesn’t give them the right to hurt and kill the people that depend on them deserve no word on the matter of domestic abuse. Fuck them.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 8 months ago

I don't think they mean coddle, they mean treat the underlying mentality.

Like, get them to wrap their head around it.

Yeah you are right, everybody gets the short end of the stick. If a women is the abuser she just has less options to do damage.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Those are some nice constructive solutions based on evidence you’ve provided, thank you for the contribution.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

I'm sorry but the level of violence in this article goes beyond someone losing their temper because of life circumstances . These were premeditated actions, and suggests to me a psychopath beyond reform.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago (1 children)

The violence goes well beyond what you believe can be caused by life circumstances.

There is a lot of evidence that “normal” people can do horrific things.

Your refusal to believe that a person could do this, and not just some monster, says a lot about your life. You should be thankful for that.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Uh huh. You know absolutely nothing about my life and what I've been through so if I were you I'd be very careful about making assumptions.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Then why aren’t you more careful making assumptions about others?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I haven't made one. My point still stands. This level of premeditated violence that was not done under duress (i.e. literal or metaphorical gun point) was an act of complete free will and are the actions of a psychopath.

Short of a lobotomy or extremely strong psychiatric drugs some people are beyond reform.

It's amusing that you come across as directing your hostility to me on the Internet, which I'm sure you will deny. I'm not the one burning people here while their kids watch.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago

Your assumption was that people who commit domestic violence are “psychopaths”.

This is not true in the overwhelming majority of cases.

If I was being hostile to you it would be far more obvious. I have been short, maybe a little condescending, but not even remotely hostile.

I'm not the one burning people here while their kids watch

And neither am I???

[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago (1 children)

What the reddit is this shit.

Firstly the article doesn’t say that.

Cops are mostly men and yeah they fucken do hate women. The stats back that up. So changing the “system” (ie the way police forces deal with abuse to get more women involved and in positions of power) is absolutely a brilliant idea. Cops also (statistically) hate their kids so it’s a double whammy.

Pieces of shit that beat their partners and children don’t get a pass because no one gave them a sympathetic pat on the hand and a cuppa. Very few people alive today believe it is acceptable to beat their spouse and kids. They do it because they can, and because they get away with it.

If the court appointed a psychologist to your father then the system DID help him. Too late, obviously, but that suggests to me the issue was with the (almost certainly male) cops not stepping in sooner to get the court involved.

I’m sorry you suffered abuse as a child and I hope your life has been safe and full of love since then.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

What the reddit is this shit.

Go over to the cesspool and check the thread, nothing there is as high quality as my comment here. They are literally all fixated on one of three things, ACAB, "so horrific my feels" and "im an abuse victim rant".

No solutions. No suggestions. No understanding of the root cause.

Firstly the article doesn’t say that.

No it is heavily implied that only women can solve this through such suggestions as women's only police stations, staffed only by women.

This is treating a symptom and not addressing the root cause; which allows more people to become victims in the first place instead of preventing offenders from existing. Do you hope for new drugs to treat cancer symptoms or do you want cancer cures? Both are great, one is better.

Pieces of shit that beat their partners and children

PEOPLE that beat their partners and children don't wake up one day wanting to be awful humans. Dehumanising offenders at every opportunity because of emotional reactions, which are understandable but not necessarily helpful, only prevents treating the root causes of the offending.

Truly broken people are extremely rare, most people are the results of their circumstances. Yes there are and always will be exceptions. Exceptions so rare they might be once in a generation.

If the court appointed a psychologist to your father then the system DID help him.

I do not like going into details but this was after 18 years, and only after we nearly killed each other. Cops ignored everything until the point that two people were hospitalised and ignoring it was no longer legally possible for them, and even then the useless bastards tried to put blame on me.

(almost certainly male) cops

Female cops were involved, from some of the earliest instances of abuse. Cops are cops. More cops won't help. Governments everywhere have tried more cops. It never works. There's some saying about doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results isn't there?

I have a genuine question on a topic that's more related than most realise. Do you think sustance abuse issues should be treated as a health issue or as a criminal matter?

deal with abuse to get more women involved and in positions of power) is absolutely a brilliant idea

Edited: Remind me again who the QPS Commissioner is? Well at least until the announcement today.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I shouldn’t have used your specific circumstance as an example and I apologise for that. I have absolutely no idea what you’ve been through and shouldn’t ever have made assumptions or attempted to use it to try to make my point.

More women would definitely help. Cop culture is massively macho, male dominated, even if there are some women in some positions of power.

Someone who decides to hit their spouse or child is a piece of shit. Someone who hurts any other innocent person intentionally is a piece of shit. Drug dealers are pieces of shit. The list is endless.

If someone with a drug dependence hurts another person while intoxicated then that’s a criminal matter. Part of their sentence would undoubtedly be rehabilitation, as it should.

If someone hurts another person then that’s a criminal matter. Part of their sentence would undoubtedly be rehabilitation.

If someone hurts a spouse or child… etc.

I don’t think singling out one group of criminals for special treatment is the answer.

No one wakes up one day and decides to be an awful human, for sure. It takes time and practise, and people around them ignoring it or even enabling it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

The point is to deal with mens issues before they’re hurting others.

Yes there should be other solutions should prevention fail, yet the focus should remain on prevention to minimise harm to the greatest number of people.

Prevention is the best strategy for literally everyone.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Or possibly we should focus more on helping the victims and then once they’re properly sorted out we can start looking at how to further assist the perpetrators.

If situations like this, and more generally movements like metoo, have taught us anything it’s that men in positions of power can make it difficult or nigh on impossible for women to be heard. Let’s help them first.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago

Sure, let’s help by drastically reducing the number of victims so we can provide higher quality assistance to those in need.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:

While out on bail for domestic violence offences, he went with a jerry can of petrol to her home in Arundel near the Gold Coast, tied her to a clothes line and, while her three children, then aged between two and nine, played nearby, he set her alight and she burned to death.

The sights, the sounds, the sensory trauma now irrevocably lodged deep inside those children is unthinkable.

It’s worth dwelling on for moment so we can think about what this particular iceberg tip says about the danger lurking underneath for women in abusive relationships.

How often do we hear of women desperately trying to get help, of being known to the system as victims of violent abuse, of then turning up as the next statistic?

There is absolutely nothing anyone in the Queensland police force can say now to make this OK. You can’t mollify this disgraceful scenario by saying the words “wouldn’t you love to turn back the clock?” and “this case represents a failure”.

Reporting to police is already terrifying and dangerous for abused women; knowing they may be ruthlessly dismissed by those charged with their protection may be the final nail in their coffin.

The original article contains 653 words, the summary contains 199 words. Saved 70%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Unfortunately the police have proven time and again that they aren’t good at preventing a crime, they’re only good at cleaning up after a crime has been committed.