The great misunderstanding of hard left leaning western folks is that neither Russia nor China are socialist or communist.
Just like their hard right leaning counterparts they’re stuck in a mindset from the first half of the past century.
this post was submitted on 07 Oct 2023
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I think I'm confused. I haven't seen any left leaning people support Russia or China. It's right leaning people that support them. What am I missing? Also I've never seen any left leaning people say Russia and China are actually socialist or communist since the 80s or 90s. I've seen right leaning people claim that lefties believe that but never any examples in real life.
The most support for China is basic materialist analysis: they've heavily invested in housing, high speed rail, electric car infrastructure, and green energy. Coincidentally: all rather related.
But that is generally the support associated with China: a materialist analysis, usually, if not always, regarding infrastructure.
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Pro politolog here
Depends which hard left, I know hard/far left people who hate them
Supporters of autocratic state capitalist regimes like China and Russia also aren't left-leaning.
Not truly sctosmen either.
What part of "authoritarian state capitalism" is left wing to you?
I don't know. I'm not a fucking tankie. They are masters at cognitive dissonance.
If they're definitionally wrong, why call "no true Scotsman"?
To feel smart. Funnily enough, socialism really has it pretty hard trying to get off the ground. The US coups another nation every five years to install some corrupt dictator that's more than willing to sell out his nation to US interests in exhchange for power. So being hunted down and utterly corrupted by the worlds biggest terrorist nation, calling socialism "never truly tried" is kiiiiiiiiiind of correct. There is a lot of social policies in Europe and those worl pretty well, though US interests and their bootlickers erode those, too.
They are, they're just ignorant
I'm not happy with this development, but I'm slightly amused by the irony being that lemmy.ml is pro-china and has been moderated as such.
I was curious what lemmy.ml has to say about this but it seems the linked post was deleted in the meantime 🤡
It's my fault. I signed up for it before I realized it was a pro China instance and the other day I said I'm not a Communist.
I feel like I might have legitimately helped as well by mocking them incessantly for being campists and not socialists
The poster was banned for trolling but I saw a comment showing that it is real.
It is definitely blocked.
Source: I'm in Mainland China.
West Taiwan*
Saying that is what China wants.
You’re reaffirming the one China policy and keeping the status quo.
Conflating Taiwan and China means Taiwan can never move onto independence.
Taiwan seems very independent already though and the vast majority of the world feels the same way.
This took a major hit just a few years ago when the UK officially backed out.
It looks like this info is out of date based on a quick search. https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-parliament-calls-taiwan-independent-country-report-says-james-cleverly-visit-china/
That said, UK support or not seems to have had little to no impact.
Are there any lemmy instances within China? 🤔
Lemmy.world still works
Guess they're not tankies then.
Not tankie enough*
This is hilarious to me. I haven't really had much opportunity to interact with them before so just today I got into a discussion about how Americans weren't the most propagandized people in the world because N Korea exists. Apparently NK is a pretty cool place and I just refuse to believe it bc I'm a propagandized American (oh sorry, they say USian for some reason).
Their flair for supporting LatAm anti-american groups has caused them to pick up the LatAm chip on the shoulder that nobody else uses "America" to refer to the whole of North and South America like they do, and instead use it to specifically denote the US.
China*
Please stop saying "mainland China". It implies Taiwan is part of China, at least to some.
Please stop saying “mainland China”. It implies Taiwan is part of China, at least to some.
It means without Hong Kong.
Hong kong also isn't part of china
I also read it to mean not HK. Is that not right?
Not HK and Hong Kong.
Also some people in Hainan will refer to the "mainland" as opposed to Hainan island.
It turns out words can be used in multiple ways. It's not all about Taiwan.
The official name of Taiwan's government is Republic of China, and it's the continuation of the government that controlled all of China before Mao's uprising.
So I'm not sure your argument makes sense. They claim to be the legitimate Chinese government in their own name.
They claim to be independent, the name is something given to them by (you guessed it) China.
They claim to be independent
They actually don't.
Edit: People downvoting this have absolutely no clue at all about Taiwanese politics and don't even bother googling "Taiwan independence". If they did, they'd knew that Taiwan never formally declared independence.
And yet there's a whole wikipedia page saying the opposite?
And yet there’s a whole wikipedia page saying the opposite?
No, not really.
The Taiwan independence movement is a political movement which advocates the formal declaration of an independent and sovereign Taiwanese state, as opposed to Chinese unification or the status quo in Cross-Strait relations.
Currently, Taiwan's political status is ambiguous.
–https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_independence_movement
Former president Lee Teng-hui has stated that he never pursued Taiwanese independence. Lee views Taiwan as already an independent state, and that the call for "Taiwanese independence" could even confuse the international community by implying that Taiwan once viewed itself as part of China. From this perspective, Taiwan is independent even if it remains unable to enter the UN.
Most Taiwanese and political parties of the ROC support the status quo, and recognize that this is de facto independence through sovereign self-rule. Even among those who believe Taiwan is and should remain independent, the threat of war from PRC softens their approach, and they tend to support maintaining the status quo rather than pursuing an ideological path that could result in war with the PRC.
The questions of independence and the island's relationship to mainland China are complex and inspire very strong emotions among Taiwanese people. There are some who continue to maintain the KMT's position, which states that the ROC is the sole legitimate government for all of China (of which they consider Taiwan to be a part), and that the aim of the government should be eventual unification of the mainland and Taiwan under the rule of the ROC. Some argue that Taiwan has been, and should continue to be, completely independent from China and should become a Taiwanese state with a distinct name.
On 25 October 2004, in Beijing, the U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell said Taiwan is "not sovereign," provoking strong comments from both the Pan-Green and Pan-Blue coalitions – but for very different reasons. From the DPP's side, President Chen declared that "Taiwan is definitely a sovereign, independent country, a great country that absolutely does not belong to the People's Republic of China". The TSU (Taiwan Solidarity Union) criticized Powell, and questioned why the US sold weapons to Taiwan if it were not a sovereign state. From the KMT, then Chairman Ma Ying-jeou announced, "the Republic of China has been a sovereign state ever since it was formed [in 1912]."
Show me where. Taiwan claims to BE China, not part of China. That's a big difference.
Also, they don't need to claim independence since Taiwan has never been part of PRC. That would make as much sense as France never claims independence from the USA.
Show me where.
Are you seriously not able to read the replies with the "Currently, Taiwan’s political status is ambiguous" line? WTF?
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