this post was submitted on 27 Jan 2024

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142

We're totally screwed (lemmy.world)

submitted 10 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 66 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (4 children)

First I've heard of these so I looked into it

It's basically a continuation of VIA's x86 tech (they sold the cyrix processors for a while if anyone remembers them). I assumed it was just copyright theft, but these are legitimately licensed x86 chips.

Apparently the current generation of these is like the Ryzen 3000 series, but I can't find any actual benchmarks, so I'll take that with a bit of salt. I doubt they will have the same power efficiency as the OP ones since the clock is apparently at 3.7GHz.

This is much cooler than I initially realised though. A viable 3rd player can keep competitor prices down so we would all benefit even if most of us aren't buying these chips

[–] [email protected] 21 points 10 months ago

Gamers Nexus tried one a while back. It wasn't great but it ran.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago (1 children)

The cyrix line of cpu was always far behind intel and amd. They ran super hot too. One time we wanted to see how much we could overclock one and it burned itself through the motherboard!

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Offtopic, but I've seen an arcade monitor where a component (resistor, most likely) had burned a hole through the PCB and was gone... and the monitor was still operational!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

This is somewhat common. I had that happen with a VRM power transistor on a graphics card. Wasn't very operational after it happened though.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

the current generation of these is like the Ryzen 3000 series

They are not like Ryzens, they are actual Ryzens made in collaboration with AMD. They have a few differences but its pretty much the same chip, same performance. I think they are still making these chips.

IIRC they still update their old VIA-based chips in parallel for embedded applications or something. Don't quote me on this one, it has been a while.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I thought the Chinese AMD chips were called Hygon or something like that?

In fact a quick google suggests these are two different CPU lines, but I might be getting it wrong

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

Its been a long time since I read about it, I'm the one probably getting this wrong.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

I think I had a Cyrix 233 at one point in the 90s. Can't believe we've got calculators that are faster than that now!

[–] [email protected] 52 points 10 months ago (1 children)

This post just gave me the most cursed idea ever.

Am x86 processor competitor but instead of implementing every single opcode it just has the common ones, and any unknown opcode it asks ChatGPT to write an equivalent C language implementation, JIT-compiles it and executes it.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Congratulations, you just reinvented basically the same thing (minus the "AI" buzzword) that Transmeta was doing a quarter-century ago.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago

I didn't say it was original.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

Pretty interesting

https://classes.engineering.wustl.edu/cse362/images/c/c7/Paper_aklaiber_19jan00.pdf

https://www.cs.cornell.edu/courses/cs6120/2019fa/blog/transmeta/

[–] [email protected] 51 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

We are totally screwed because now they're going to put these in cheap laptops and peddle them to the elderly and the non-technically inclined who don't know any better. Then, us tech people have to deal with "why is my Windows 11 pentium 3 pc so goddamned slow"

[–] [email protected] 10 points 10 months ago

Don't buy a $200 laptop off temu and you should be good.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 10 months ago

It's progress. Competition is always good.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 10 months ago

That checks out

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago

I have this wyse Cx0... runs kolibriOS now

It runs some via chip from the early 2000s despite being from 2011

I think this is similar or maybe a lil faster

[+] [email protected] -16 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Given how fast China can progress when they put their minds to it, this is worrying.

[–] [email protected] 62 points 10 months ago (4 children)

Well, when you’ve spent the past 20 years stealing intellectual property and conducting industrial espionage is it really that hard to get to this point?

[–] [email protected] 29 points 10 months ago

Actually they were just exchanging their cheap labour and garbage disposal for the West's collective greed. So its only fair they return in kind.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 10 months ago

Given how fast China can progress when they put ~~their~~ our minds to it, this is worrying.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 10 months ago (2 children)

I dunno, stealing intellectual property from companies strikes me as a victimless crime.

But more than that, it's the only way for poor countries to work their way out of poverty. We hold the profitable ends of the value chain, developing countries are left holding the unprofitable middle, and we won't provide any of the know-how needed to work the more profitable parts.

Either we willingly include technology transfer as part of globalisation, or we whine about 'IP theft'. Because we can't expect poor countries to willingly stay poor to benefit us.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 months ago (1 children)

China is the second largest economy in the world, nobody is whining about Ethiopia borrowing ideas to feed people.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

They weren't 20 years ago though.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Well then by your logic, why are they still doing it today, now more than ever, if it’s just a way out of poverty? Hmm 🤔

[+] [email protected] -6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I never said it's just a way out of poverty, the world is more complex than that.

But to address your point China is still a developing country. It's also a rich country. It's weird.

Chinese companies compete with US companies, so of course they steal from them. Just like US companies steal from their competitors. When our companies do it, they just call it competitive intelligence.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

No, I’m afraid not. In America there are laws against stealing shit, look at what happened to the Apple Watch over the past few weeks. Or the billions Adobe paid to look at Figma’s IP.

I hope you spend decades creating something new and exciting only to have someone else come along and steal it. I’m sure you’ll shrug it off 🤷 and say they were just competing (since now you’ve said it’s not poverty driven).

What’s the next goalpost you’re going to move?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Wait so because two major US companies were caught stealing IP US companies don't steal?

Edit:

spend decades creating something new and exciting only to have someone else come along and steal it

After already making millions on it, being the first to market, developing a prestigious position - I'd be fine.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago (1 children)

U.S. companies don’t steal

You made this dumb claim, not me.

And the point was there are steep consequences to stealing. Unlike China parading around like they’re some kind of divine power when they just steal shit all day long.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 10 months ago

Sorry if I misunderstood your argument, I said that US companies also steal and you said "no, I'm afraid not". I'm not sure why you brought up enforcement or consequences? As I said I don't think it's a crime with any real negative consequence, so the differences in US and Chinese punishments don't seem relevant.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Stealing IP is victimless up to a point: At the point where companies that pay for innovation are out-competed by companies that just steal this innovations, everyone that wants technological progress is a victim. This is why I have an issue with companies like Huawei blatantly stealing IP. We wouldn't have the tech we rely on today if not for someone eating the cost of innovation, turning a profit, and seeing continued innovation as a viable business strategy.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

Yeah, I get that. That totally makes sense.

However, it only makes sense up to a total point. When it gets to the bizarre situation that even trivial things are patented, and cannot be used, ever again, then IP stops being meaningful. IIRC the scrollbar in browsers used as such an example.

Like, IP, if used a little bit of it, helps innovation. But if the IP laws are too strict, it turns into the opposite, and hinders innovation.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

Given the way corporations in the United States have taken advantage of the American people I'm fine with saying IP theft isn't victimless but I'm glad it's happening to these corporations. If they want American citizens to care they need to start treating American citizens better. Until then I'm fully in support of China fucking over every American corporation.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I'm not sad China is stealing IP from billionaires who are hoarding their wealth. If those billionaires want American citizens to care then share more of the profits.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I love it when the apologists’ friends show up, when you guys can’t argue the high ground any more you just take aim at everyone else

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

You think coming to the defense of billion dollar corporations is the moral high ground? How much boot are you licking?

[–] [email protected] -3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

You lost the argument, time to redirect redirect redirect!

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago

What argument? I just said I don't care if China is stealing from these corporations.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

They don’t have the EUV machines needed to make the most modern chips. Only DUV so far.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

Huawei recently released a phone with an SoC using that tech. So they have it in some capacity.