this post was submitted on 06 Aug 2023
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Announcements

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Official announcements from the Lemmy project. Subscribe to this community or add it to your RSS reader in order to be notified about new releases and important updates.

You can also find major news on join-lemmy.org

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 

This is an opportunity for any users, server admins, or interested third parties to ask anything they'd like to @[email protected] and I about Lemmy. This includes its development and future, as well as wider issues relevant to the social media landscape today.

Note: This will be the thread tmrw, so you can use this thread to ask and vote on questions beforehand.

Original Announcement thread

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

How do you see Lemmy working with duplicate communities on different instances? For example if Lemmy.World and Lemmy.ml have a PersonalFinance community, are people expected to cross-post? Or have you conceived of a system to allow people to find the right community efficiently?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Its a problem, and at the same time a feature. For example, you can have two communities named !news, that pertain to completely different topics based on their instance:

This also isn't unique to lemmy, since reddit too had tons of duplicate communities for the same topics.

Just like on reddit, the network effect will run its course here: unavoidably there will be a lot of cross-posting on duplicated communities, until people center around their favorites, based on quality of content.

There are a few tools out there too, like https://lemmyverse.net/communities , that can help people find communities to subscribe to.

Overall tho, I'm against the concept of "combining / merging communities" that are run on different sites by different people. These should be curated and controlled by the people who created them.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I agree that community structure should not change to handle duplicates. If anything, having a feature similar to hashtags or topics that can aggregate a stream of posts from multiple communities would be nice.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Hi there! Looks like you linked to a Lemmy community using a URL instead of its name, which doesn't work well for people on different instances. Try fixing it like this: [email protected]

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

absolutely brilliant bot misfire 😂

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Is this link supposed to work?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

No, it's a fictional instance used to make a point.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Right now, instances with transphobic and racist content like exploding-heads are still listed on join-lemmy.org. Are you planning to implement a Server Convenant like on joinmastodon.org? To be listed on joinmastodon.org, an instance needs “Active moderation against racism, sexism, homophobia and transphobia”.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago (4 children)

The instance list is fine as is. Think about it like this: do you want racists to join a single instance so they are all in one place? Or do you want them to spread across all different instances, causing moderation problems everywhere?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

i would rather want the racists to not be able to go anywhere at all

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It doesnt really matter what you want. The software is open source so anyone can use the software freely. No way to prevent it.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

yea sure there will always be racist instances but they shouldn't be promoted on sites like join-lemmy.org

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

It's possible that anti-racist, queer or any other serious organisations might not want to link to join-lemmy.org because of it.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Thats fine, they can provide their own list of instances where users can choose from.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

They are on your list (which is seen as the official one by many and has most visits) to guide transphobes and fascists to their fitting community?? Exploding-heads is not labeled as transphobe and fascist on join-lemmy. So that does't make sense.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

And if the racist is here to cause problems rather than commiserate with fellow racists, they now know exactly which community to avoid, thus restoring moderation problems everywhere. I don't think anyone is asking you to moderate every instance to ensure they are sticking to your TOS or your viewpoints, but it's a very minor ask to not showcase off the racists and transphobes and bigots on the 'join this platform' page.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Yes, I think it would be best if they would all gather on one instance that can get defederated. Right now they attract users on join-lemmy with "Use humor and facts to hold the ruling class accountable", no other info.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Hi! This isn't really a question, but I was a former admin on Lemmy.ml and I just want to say that I really appreciated the opportunity to be on your team and it was a really valuable experience for me! I'm no longer an admin due to inactivity and personal life events causing me to no longer have the time to serve such a role, but I enjoyed the time I was and I really hope I was able to make a positive contribution to the instance!

Thank you for your continued work developing this project and running your instance comrades! This is still by far my favourite fediverse platform, actually, favourite social media in general. I intend to continue using both Lemmy.ml and Lemmygrad and I hope I can continue to contribute by using Lemmy when I have the chance!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Comrade Dessalines, you rock. Your audiobooks and essays are great. No questions.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

o7 comrade. I'm glad I can help out in any way.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Chances that hexbear emojis become the Lemmy standard across all instances ?

Thank you for your service.

sankara-salute

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Each instance should be in control of their own emojis IMO, for example a star trek instance would have only star-trek related emojis.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Any plans for improving SEO? One of Reddit’s biggest strengths was being able to get very relevant results with a simple internet search. In time can you see something similar for Lemmy, even with its decentralized nature? I really you for doing this, thank you for your time!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Lemmy-ui supports SEO, and also has opengraph tags. If there's anything else needs to be added, we're open to PRs.

Side note: For me personally, as @[email protected] suggested, SEO shouldn't be a focus. SEO is such a gamed system, catering to a few giant search companies, and results are increasingly becoming unusable, especially in the past few years. I can barely find the things I want to search for, and almost always have better luck using internal sites search engines. So I'd rather focus on improving lemmy's search capabalities and filtering, than catering to google.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Would you please consider having only local post/community/users indexed by search engines? A lemmy.ml user complained that their username is first result on Google with lemmynsfw.com domain name. Also implementing this would decrease chance of duplicate content.

It can resolved with a simple noindex meta tag.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'd be open to a PR for that, sure.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I hate Inferno (specifically class components) but I'll check what I can do 🙏

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I do too now (I created lemmy-ui when react was king), which is why the new UI will be written in leptos, using signal-based reactivity, and functional components.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I'm gonna be asking hard questions, I think, sorry about that. I hope you consider it tough love considering our past interactions.

As an instance admin, I have some questions:

  • How are you doing? I know there was a lot of pressure when things blew up and it seems to be calming down a bit now.

  • How is Lemmy doing financially?

  • Considering past releases and their associated breaking bugs (including 0.18.3), what measures are you taking to help prevent that?

  • Can we consider the possibility of downgrades being supported?

  • Why are bugs affecting moderation not release blockers? Does anything block releases?

  • Are there plans to give instance administrators a voice in shaping the future of Lemmy's development?

As someone who is trying to help with Lemmy's development, I have some other questions:

  • What do you think are the biggest problems with Lemmy as a software project and what are your priorities for Lemmy?
  • Considering fairly low amounts of developers contributing to Lemmy, how are you working to help new people get into the project?
  • Do you worry about the message it sends to potential contributors when the main developers are working on a different project which competes with the former? (Example: Lemmy-ui vs Lemmy-ui-Leptos)
  • Considering most work is done voluntarily, how are you trying to organize and prioritize work?
  • Do you believe you are stretching yourself too thin between Lemmy, Lemmy-ui, Lemmy-ui-leptos, Jerboa and Lemmy.ml? If so, what are you doing to help you focus?
[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Alright second part:

  • The biggest problem is definitely that there are too many things to do, but only the two of us working on it fulltime. The day only has so many hours and its impossible to keep up with everything. Thats why community contributions are really important.
  • The amount of contributors is very high compared to a few months ago, its not easy to keep up with all the pull requests. Its going to take some time for processes to adjust to the new scale, and for new contributors to learn how everything works.
  • This is a question for @[email protected]
  • People work on whatever they are passionate about. Generally that works quite well.
  • I am only working on Lemmy and thats already a lot. So another question for @[email protected]
[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Wow lots of questions here.

  • Im doing well, its exciting to know that so many people like the software Ive worked on for the last years. The first month after the migration was really stressful, but by now its calmed down a lot. Plus there are many contributors now which are helping a lot.
  • Unfortunately the user donations are just barely enough to pay our salaries, by my calculations the income from Liberapay, Patreon and Open Collective is around 4000 USD per month. Luckily we still have some NLnet funding left, and should be able to work on those milestones now that things have calmed down. I hope the user donations will increase so that they can pay us proper salaries. Maybe even hire additional people, but that seems very optimistic now. It would also be good if we could find other funding sources besides NLnet, as its not clear if they will fund us another year.
  • I think the "breaking bugs" were really minor considering how we had to constantly rush out performance and security fixes. This should get better as we dont need to make emergency fixes, and have more time to let the community test release candidates before making the full release.
  • Supporting downgrades means that someone has to test them and report/fix problems. We dont have time for that, but feel free to do it.
  • Like I said, our recent releases had urgent performance/security fixes so we didnt have enough time for testing. We also didnt find out about these problems until later. Part of the problem is that keeping up with issues is almost a full-time job on its own, so I rarely read them anymore. If you see something important reported, do let me know.
  • No concrete plans, but I definitely think that admins are the main actors who should have a voice in development. Its impossible for us to listen to all the individual users, because there are too many and they often dont have the necessary technical knowledge. If you have some ideas how to facilitate communication between devs and admins, let me know.

Are we almost done? Nope, only halfway. Will answer the second half a bit later.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I asked in the other thread about GDPR.

Nobody thinks it's very interesting but if instances don't follow gdpr, the entire network is at risk of legal consequences.

So please bring this up, even though it's not very fun.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Neither @[email protected] or I are too familiar with the GDPR, so we don't know everything that it requires. Lemmy doesn't do any logging of IPs or other sensitive info, but of course instance runners could be doing their own logging / metrics via their webservers.

We have a Legal section under admin settings, that's an optional markdown field, that can probably be used for it. We'd need someone with GDPR expertise though to help put things together. Lemmy is international software, not european-specific, so we have to keep that in mind when supporting GDPR.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

As a person who oversaw the implementation of GDPR in a large software house (which wasn't EU specific, but had to in order to operate legally in the EU), the requirements were:

  1. Allow users to request data deletion or a copy of their data.
  2. If the former, delete all data of their data on the server, send it to them, and then (this was the important part) forward the data deletion request to every single partner we were working with.

For us, this was multiple ad companies. We had to e-mail each one, ask them about their GDPR implementation (most of them were somewhere between "we're thinking about it" and "we have an e-mail address you can send something automated to and we'll get to it sometime within the next month"), and then build an automated back-end system to either query their APIs for automated deletion, or craft/send e-mails for the more primitive companies.

As far as the data being deleted, it was anonymized IDs that were tied to their advertising IDs from their mobile phones. I used to try and argue that "no, it's anonymous" - but we also had some player data (these were games) associated with that, so we ended up just clearing house and deleting everything on request.

So, legally, this means every instance - in order to be GDPR compliant - would have to inform every instance it federates with that a user wants their data deleted. If you're not doing that, you're not fully compliant.

Kind of shitty, but that's how it went for me. (this was back when GDPR was first being released)

Edit: Also, the one month thing was relevant: you have 30 days to delete GDPR stuff after receiving a data clear request. I don't recall what the time was for a "see my data" request. Presumably, though, on Lemmy the latter is superfluous as all your data is already present on your profile page. An account export option would be enough to satisfy that.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Im not a lawyer so I dont know about GDPR. Do you know how similar platforms such as Mastodon handle it?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Hard to say exactly what Mastodon does, but mastodon.social's privacy policy should give you some direction in how they handle data: https://mastodon.social/privacy-policy

As mastodon.social is based in Germany, they will know about GDPR and have to follow it to the letter.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That sounds like its something for instance admins to handle, nothing we as developers need to care about. Maybe we should add a privacy policy for lemmy.ml but thats it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Yea it is ultimately on the admins, but Lemmy just needs to not make it hard to comply with GDPR. So it's up to admins to raise issues when Lemmy is seen as an obstacle to compliance, and it's up to devs to listen and implement compliance features.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Ask Us Anything

What is the meaning of life

inb4 "42"

Also if you are the creator of lemmy can you nuke all the liberal infested websites? Or does it not work like that

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

As some instances grow, server costs are becoming significant. Right now, servers are only funded through donations. Do you see the development of anything else to help fund server costs?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

If lemmy is working as intended (many small, connected servers), hosting costs should be small: like < $10 USD / month. (images are another issue, but I'll answer that in other comments).

Of course we don't plan on adding any monetization directly into lemmy or its UI, including ads, or required payments. Right now at least the best way is to put donation links in your site sidebar.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What do you think of the neoliberal hell that lemmy.ml is right now?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I dont follow /c/worldnews so I dont see much of that. Also hexbear is federating now, so it might easily swing back the other way again.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

How do you combat bot accounts and illegal content? Is it moderation or algorithms or both?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

People reporting those instances / users, then admins can add them to the blocklist, or ban them and remove their content.

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