Also right wing nuts killing human rights wherever they can, especially on domestic soil.
this post was submitted on 04 Jan 2024
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Imposing Democracy on others does not seem to work, or requires a skill set rarely developed.
It worked in Japan and Germany. Depends a lot on the context. Still too risky to consider it a good default strategy.
Iraq is definitely better off than they were under Saddam, if you want a more recent example.
All it cost was untold suffering and a million dead Iraqis to overthrow the dictator America installed in the first place.
a million dead Iraqis
Source?
I googled it, results vary from 250k to 500k, so not quite a million but still, that's a lot of deaths. Either way, the US government's real reason for that war was not to save the country from dictatorship ...
Point of Clarification. Are you calling Ghazi Mashal Ajil al-Yawer a dictator, or referring to an earlier point in time?
I come from a country, Portugal, were the people conquered Democracy from the Fascists by force (though it was mainly a peaceful affair).
In next door Spain some years later the Fascists passed some laws to give themselves immunity and keep the wealth they stole from the rest and then left power, which is how they became a Democracy.
Portugal has none of the problems of regionalist breakaway movements that Spain has, the Far Right is more recent smaller and way milder than in Spain (were even the mainstream Rightwing-party has always been far more to the Right than the equivalent one in Portugal).
(Portugal is a far ... far, far ... from perfect country, but at least in this things seem to have been done right)
Whilst indeed it's anecdotal, this and what I've seen over the years when it comes to foreign interventions to "bring democracy", leads me to believe that Democracy, to be stable, has to be won, not "gifted" by a dictatorship (and even a foreign invader which is a democratic country is de facto a dictatorship for the locals of the occcupied country as they don't get to vote in that country's elections and are quite literally being governed by dictat).
I feel like they imposed "democracy" in a way that allowed them to use that country as a puppet for material and strategic gain. Real lasting change has to be from the bottom up.
My feed shows that @Stamets is awake.
Barely
Jam some meth crystals into your anus.
I'd like some of that blue protomolecule.
Huh? Am I OOTL here?
Stamets posts a lot of good memes, that's all.
Oh, okay. Thanks!
When the world mentions the word 'Democracy' ... everyone thinks of 'Democracy'
When the US mentions the word 'Democracy' .... it means invasion, war, bombs and death
In America, the word 'democracy' has lost all meaning
Democracy in America actually does have consistent meaning. It’s just that it isn’t what people think it is. When america says ‘democracy’ what they mean is liberalisation of trade and markets for American capital interests. Often with disastrous effects for the local population and their economy. The word freedom also has a similar meaning. The word freedoms is more accurately considered a contraction of the phrase ‘freedom for american capital flows’.
Looking at the Official Report On the Iraq War published in the UK some years ago, American "bringing of democracy" there was quite literally the war crime of Pillage.
Basically the local administration installed by the Cohalition in Iraq was forced to give almost all oil exploitation contracts to British and American companies, mainly the latter.
Who knows just how rigged the voting system is over there to produce an image of "Democracy" whilst making sure real power always goes to those who favour American interests or are easy to corrupt to do so.
Ah, takes me back to the good ol days after 9/11.
Yes it became prominent after 9/11 ... but that kind of behaviour has been going on for a century and more distinctively after the Second World War
Look up the history of Allen/Foster Dulles and their work for American Corp in the 20s and 30s ... their enthusiasm for war in the 40s ... and then with the CIA in the 50s and 60s ... the actions of which led to what happened in the 70s and 80s ... which later on affected what happened in the 90s and 2000s. It makes you understand that even if the US people don't want a war ... those in positions of power and wealth enjoy war and conflict because it makes them money and spreads their power. We accuse other nations of doing the same but America does it while draped in a democracy flag and an ugly tattoo across their forehead that says 'freedom'.
their enthusiasm for war in the 40s
I mean... nazis.
Perhaps you have a typo in your years there?
The Dulles brothers did legitimately help the Allied effort during the Second World War .... but leading up to and during the actual war years, they were also known to play favourites, court unscrupulous characters, take part in shady deals and help one side or the other depending on what business was involved. Then when the war was over, it was far easier and more acceptable to be a fascist or even a Nazi than a communist. Look at the history and background to a lot of German and Nazi professionals, academics, scientists and military leaders after the war .. many of them were courted by US intelligence to work for the US while disregarding their past offences.
Allen Dulles probably single handedly sabotaged any kind of neutral or positive relationship with the Communists ... this isn't meant to say that the Communists were a positive political movement ... Allen Dulles was instrumental in making a bad situation worse for probably 20 years. Even JFK wanted to build a relationship with the Soviets but people like Dulles just wanted fear, anger and war without negotiation or compromise.
When you start reading the history of the Dulles brothers ... it gets hard to differentiate them from the fascists they supposedly fought in the Second World War ... they were more like the Nazis without the overt Aryanism
Got it. Hopefully you get my confusion.
No I think OP refers to the Early Career section of the wiki. There was legitimate debate around whether the U.S. should join WWII.
Besides, didn't the US stay out of the war until basically the last minute? I feel like I'm missing something.
Gotta love "The Democratic Republic of Korea"
You can't trust the tankies with the word, either.
the irony of a moderator violating their own rules
Idk, I think this meme is acceptable under the premise that clearly evident truth with mountains of proof can't possibly be a political wedge issue, right?
USA spreading freedom and democracy by couping various democratic countries and replacing the democratically elected leaders with fascists and warlords
"I didn't hear no bell" -- Daenerys, breaker of chains, rider of dragons, queen of s'mores.
And that second image is also valid within US borders.
Dreams of Dresden
Some of the most successful fascist propaganda ever that.
“WOLLT IHR DEN TOTALEN KRIEG? … Hey, not like that! Not fair!”
Think of Bananas!
I spent way too long trying to figure out what country Bananas is. Maybe it's the capital B, or maybe Bananas just sounds like a nation to me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Most freedom and democracy spreads via soft power. Nothing sells liberalism the way investment does.
USA! USA! USA!
Like that one song from that movie...
Didn't the US stop doing this 20 years ago?
Besides, it's still better than Iran, and Russia. Fewer dead. Less economic strife, much much less injustice.