Don't add the while your around bit.
I'm going to work on improving my language, and I'll be mindful going forward, it's a very deep habit, so please bear with me.
this post was submitted on 05 Nov 2024
72 points (90.9% liked)
No Stupid Questions
36147 readers
1000 users here now
No such thing. Ask away!
!nostupidquestions is a community dedicated to being helpful and answering each others' questions on various topics.
The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:
Rules (interactive)
Rule 1- All posts must be legitimate questions. All post titles must include a question.
All posts must be legitimate questions, and all post titles must include a question. Questions that are joke or trolling questions, memes, song lyrics as title, etc. are not allowed here. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.
Rule 2- Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material.
Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.
Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.
Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.
Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.
That's it.
Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.
Questions which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.
Rule 6- Regarding META posts and joke questions.
Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-question posts using the [META] tag on your post title.
On fridays, you are allowed to post meme and troll questions, on the condition that it's in text format only, and conforms with our other rules. These posts MUST include the [NSQ Friday] tag in their title.
If you post a serious question on friday and are looking only for legitimate answers, then please include the [Serious] tag on your post. Irrelevant replies will then be removed by moderators.
Rule 7- You can't intentionally annoy, mock, or harass other members.
If you intentionally annoy, mock, harass, or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.
Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.
Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.
Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.
Let everyone have their own content.
Rule 10- Majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here.
Credits
Our breathtaking icon was bestowed upon us by @Cevilia!
The greatest banner of all time: by @TheOneWithTheHair!
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
Also, don’t say, “I wasn’t aware it was so important to you.” That’s definitely a trigger phrase.
Try, “Thank you for letting me know this is important for you,” (or “how you feel”) instead.
I am going to work on improving my language, and I will be mindful going forward. It's a very deep habit, so please bear with me. Thank you for letting me know this is important for you.
Not too shabby!
Yes! Love it.
I hear "I wasn't aware" as sarcasm a lot.
"Oh SOWWIE I wasn't AWARE I couldn't shit on the floor!"
Vs
"Thank you for letting me know it is important not to shit on the floor."
A lot of the response here has been around the way the 'apology' focusses too much on the person who's supposed to be receiving the apology and not the person who has something to apologise for. The intended draft follows along the classic lines of "sorry if you feel that way" which implies that the person being apologized to is really the one in the wrong for having taken offence and the apologizer is just indignant at being forced to say anything rather than actually sorry for anything.
I get all that, but... Is there no way to sincerely express being sorry for not considering or anticipating another person's individual response to something as opposed to the thing itself? Without seemingly blaming them for that response? It's still about the apologiser's actions in having been inconsiderate in their deployment of language then, just not for the actual language. I ask because your proposed change "I'm going to work on improving my language" implies that the error was in using the word fuck at all and that their language is in general faulty in some way. I don't think that's the case. Having a manner of speech that includes that word is not something inherently bad, the bad behaviour necessitating an apology as I see it is for being too presumptive in assuming this particular person would have no problem with it when it's known that some people might and also for not immediately taking that person's offence seriously in the immediate aftermath when they expressed having taken offence (they didn't take it seriously, this is a follow up post).
It seems reasonable, if expressed very carefully, to commit to avoiding the word around them, since that's all that person can reasonably want, that's the problematic behaviour that is getting in the way of their working together. Committing to improving their language can really only mean committing to not saying that word generally which is defacto suggesting the word itself, not the lack of consideration is the problem and also puts OP in a position now of being on the hook in future not just for using the word around this individual but in all other circumstances as well something they shouldn't promise. If the work environment is such that nobody else speaks like this and they're the only one then sure, it should have been common sense to begin with and such a commitment is a no brainer, but if it's otherwise common practice and it's just this one person they need to accommodate then that's what should be done, accommodating this one specific person in order not to offend in future and apologising in order to let them know that you hear them and consider their feelings important.
It's pretty straightforward. If the apology is expressed around how the other person perceives things. It's not a real apology.
I'm sorry you feel that way. I'm sorry you think that. I'm sorry you took that misunderstanding from me.
In fact, in these situations, it may be better not to apologize at all. I realize some of the language I use isn't great, I'm working on it, please understand I'm not going to be perfect at it.
Dunno. I'd expect grown ass adults to be able to put their personal feelings aside for the sake of professional obligations. If your coworker is gonna get upset at everything, he's not in for a very good time.
I agree with the sentiment, but if we're going to make that argument based around professionalism, I would also have to argue that it's not very professional to use that kind of language in a work setting.
So maybe this is a situation where both sides can grow.
it’s not very professional to use that kind of language in a work setting.
That depends massively on the profession, setting, and context.
Restaurant kitchen where something gets spilled, a trade where something unexpectedly breaks, a couple lawyers without anyone else around finding out their client is on camera admitting to the crime, etc. are all fine to say a calm 'oh fuck' as a reaction. Someone in an open office who yelled it because their code didn't compile would not be acting very professional.
OP is a nurse in a hospital.
If no patients were around then an excited utterance gets a free pass.
It may be more common among certain job types, but I don't think that makes it professional behavior to do so regardless of the type of work.
load more comments
(2 replies)
Than replacement words shouldn’t be acceptable either, you can either express your frustration or you can’t. A choose of word shouldn’t make a difference, it should be unprofessional to make an outburst at all if that’s the case.
load more comments
(1 replies)
OP came to share a thing they're doing and you built this story as a extremely sensitive coworker?
load more comments
(2 replies)
I work in a very large tech company. I curse like a fucking sailor around some people and use my church voice around others. Expletives lose their punch when used too often.
I wouldn't apologize or bring it up further. The time for an apology about language spoken in the heat of the moment is as soon after as possible.
The best apology is a change in behavior.
Good luck navigating this, you can see how contentious a topic it is by the comments in this thread. But it boils down to know your audience, and believe people when they tell you they have a problem.
I remember working in the London UK office and we curse non-stop over there it's great. Whenever our colleagues from SF would visit they would always be surprised how much we swear. I'd see them do the turnaround like, 'what just happened?'.
is it an office. if so the apology should be more about your behavior in a professional setting not just around one person. If its blue collar it might apply if members of the public are around.
This is a solid point.
In a polite environment like an office, if one person was offended enough to call it out, there's a huge chance others feel the same way.
I mean there will always be Karen's who flip out that you're just eating chips loudly.
But It's up to the company culture to decide how to approach it as a whole, rather than address it with a single person.
Somewhat. the office environment is the employers and generally follows a civil discourse type of rule. Again in blue collar if your on a site and everyone there is just a worker then usually swearing is commonplace but if your doing a job at a home and the homeowners are around its generally frowned upon. Public businesses usually do not allow it but will let it slip if its not confrontational or often. So basically the apology is more about the owner of the space I would say and whats appropriate.
I would censor the work f--k because it might come off like you're being passive aggressive and aren't really trying. Reminds of the time the actor that played Burke on Grey's Anatomy called the actor that played George a fa---t, then made a public apology saying he's sorry he called him a fa---t and that he wont say fa---t again, except he said the word. People got even more pissed, and I think he was fired from the show. 🤦
I previously made a comment on how I've learned to apologize if you're interested.
load more comments
(1 replies)
I hate your coworker
You don't have to say anything, just change the behavior around them. If you're required to apologize, "I'm sorry. I'll work on that." should suffice
Not everything is about what we're "required" to do. If op wants to apologize, why try and talk them out of it?
*Edit to add this clip since it's been echoing in my head for weeks now and it's relevant: https://files.catbox.moe/ozpjht.mp4
It also sounds like based on the preceding post that they really are going to have to do this as the initial reaction to offending their coworker seems not to have gone down well with them and their colleagues at all. It looks like they're kind of having to do this to prevent things escalating any further which might be why their apology has needed to be workshopped and people are finding flaws in it. They're probably having to work through a fair bit of resentment before they can find an authentic apology in themselves. Good for them though, that can take a bit of reflection and the initial instinct can be to try and issue a non-apology apology but instead they're working through it to get it right.
load more comments
(1 replies)
Comes across as a snide non-apology to me. Regardless of whether an apology or whatever is warranted, the phrasing here sounds nothing like an apology if that's what you’re going for
I wouldn't wory too much about that coworker, if they can't handle something as banal as fuck, it's their problem, not yours
Until it's escalated, and then it's definitely OPs problem. Most jobs have something about professionalism written is their handbook. The coworker will win that fight with hr every time.
Than they can fight that any outburst is unprofessional and they are being harassed for what other coworkers are doing.
Fuck Shit Damn Shoot Darn
No difference, zero, but personal offense for arbitrary reasons.
True in theory, but in practice, those are pretty much universally accepted curse words. I personally swear all of the time when I know the audience I'm around, and hear people swearing from across my office, so culturally it's not a thing where I work or especially my previous manufacturing job. In places that have outside customers or patients, the expectation is generally different and varying levels of masking those outbursts is required, sometimes even saying things like "crap"is too much.
It’s part of my religion, are you trying to suppress my religious rights?
Or something like that, there's always an angle to play if someone wants to be petty or want to exert their “power” over their coworkers.
load more comments
(2 replies)
load more comments
(2 replies)
"I'll try and be more professional in the future."
This way you're not judging them or yourself, you're saying you understand that there's a code of behavior the bosses expect everyone to follow.
load more comments
(1 replies)
My neighbor passed away and a new family moved in. Talking with dad, I noticed he didn't swear much. I said a handful of curse words the first few times we talked. I noticed he was a little put off. So I just made a conscious effort to not curse around him. Never apologized, just tried not to. Pretty sure he's noticed and appreciates it.
This is a terrible apology. You make it all about then instead of your actions and then don't even say you won't do it, but only that you'll try to do it...and then immediately dropping the f bomb throwing out the window any chance that you're "trying" means anything.
"I'll try not to swear around you. I'm sorry. I will probably not be perfect, but I assure you I'm trying."
That's enough.
I assume you are genuinely sorry and have decided you want to behave differently around them.
So. Your co worker NEVER watches TV? You know? Where swearing is everywhere.
Really not a good apology.
It comes off as looking down on the other person.
Note I didn't insult the coworker (no fuck you or fuck off), but simply said 'fuck' out loud
So it is all just bad behaviour on your side. You can apologize for that: Your own behaviour. NOT the coworker's interpretation of it.
I worked with someone like that who got their jimmies tussled by cursing. I said sorry in the moment they voiced their feelings and avoided them after that. I didn’t change how I talk or come up with a huge apology.
Don't go could turkey, you'll fail. Lizard brain is gonna respond with or without monkey brains help.
As much as you can, start with replacing fuck with frack or fine or fudge, or just make it funny. Stopping the cadence is harder than changing the word.
Lmao, you forgot the apology part.
A quality apology consists of 3 things:
- An explanation of what you did that was wrong, and why it was wrong
- An explanation of what you're going to try and change about yourself, to avoid the same mistake
- An expression of remose. I.E. the word "sorry" or "apologize".
Your proposed apology has all those elements, so you're already ahead of most folks. But there are a few suggestions for improvement in this thread that I think are also good.
"if you felt so, I apologize": I don't read this as you apologizing for how the other person feels, since you clarified that earlier. But I think it's fair that others might read it that way, so you're better off eliminating the ambiguity. You're apologizing for what you did, without considering that others might (validly) consider it inappropriate.
"I'll try to control myself around you": similar deal, it should be clear that this is about you, not them. And when it comes to swearing in a workplace, it's pretty-darn common to consider it inappropriate and unprofessional, no matter who you're around. Maybe part of your apology needs to focus on how the behavior is unprofessional, and you simply needed help recognizing that, as you're (possibly?) new to the professional working world.
No, but the swearing is immaterial. That apology isn't, so let's break down the likely interpretation a bit.
I didn't want to insult you and if you felt so, I apologize.
This is probably the most egregious part, since 'I'm sorry you felt offended' isn't actually an apology, it just sounds like one. You're not actually apologising for anything you did.
No matter what it is you might have wanted or intended, the fact of the matter is that you did offend your coworker with your swearing.
The word fuck is one I use very often, but I'll try to control myself around you'
This part is fine-ish? I'd leave off the "around you", since it's extraneous. They don't need to know that you're deliberately taking exception around them.
I apologize. The word fuck is one I'm used to using, but I'll try to avoid using it.
Seems a better way of putting it. You made the error, you apologised, clean and cut. No need for unnecessary explanation that could be taken as excuse, or unnecessary exceptions that may taint your intended message.
Maybe accompany it with an apology muffin or something.
I apologize. The word fuck is one I’m used to using, but I’ll try to avoid using it.
This sounds like "I'm sorry I fucking swore around you, I'll try to stop that shit."
Ugh, so one thing that's annoying about apologies is that if you use the word "if" people usually think it's a bad apology regardless of everything else you say. Try to say things like "I'm sorry that it upset you" instead of "I'm sorry if I've upset you."
Good enough for me.
He didn't realize it was an issue, he won't do it again.
view more: next ›