this post was submitted on 14 Oct 2024

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‘They will vote against Harris’: Arab Americans in Michigan desert Democrats over Gaza (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 2 days ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

32 comments fedilink hide all child comments

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/21396125

Stephen Starr in Hamtramck, Michigan
Mon 14 Oct 2024 11.00 EDT

all 40 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

It's not like these voters didn't fucking MAKE LOUD AND CLEAR their intention during the primary with the Undecided movement SEVERAL MONTHS AGO.

At this point, this is 100% the Democrats campaign fault for not PANDERING BETTER to the demands of their own god damn base. It's called a democracy you nitwits, you're supposed to REPRESENT people.

Edit: this is the POV of a Canadian, seeing Americans throw their democracy away. Democrats made a whole ruckus about how they put country over party, but it seems they could not put country over ...CUFI and AIPAC.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 day ago (4 children)

I would like everyone to note that Peter Link, who posts endless articles, has a very obvious agenda, but almost never comments.

Posting article after article but never engaging is bad faith participation in Lemmy.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 15 hours ago

Blocked, grazi.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Over 500 posts and barely a dozen comments.

And yeah their posts clearly have an agenda. A lot of “both sides bad don’t vote” kind of stuff.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

"both sides bad" has won almost every US election, according to this chart.

It's literally the most popular position when you consider voter turnout and % of votes for each main party.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

You’re confusing not voting and not liking both parties. A lot of people don’t vote because they don’t give a shit. Or simply can’t.

I haven’t voted most of my life because I’m disabled and can’t make it to polling booths.

In Switzerland we have a dozen major parties and turnout is around 30%. Our open list system allows for extensive “customisation of votes” and lets you choose from hundreds of candidates. People just don’t vote because they can’t be bothered or are busy aren’t really motivated etc.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago

And Republicans have made it harder and harder to vote over the years.

Mail-in voting should be legal in all states and election day should be a federal holiday. You should also be automatically registered to vote if you are a citizen and get a driver's license or ID card.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I'm definitely not confused. Perhaps we have irreconcilable philosophical differences, but I'm certainly not confused by percentages.

Personally, I would a 30% voter turnout as a damning indictment of the system, particularly when Switzerland was one of the last countries in Europe to legalize women's right to vote and the right to gay marriage.

For most of the US's history, most people were simply not allowed to participate in that system and twice this century the winner lost the popular vote. How is it do hard to believe that someone would feel legitimately disenfranchised and frustrated by that system?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago

I have the guy tagged, and half my feed is his posts

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Sorry if you think that my posting reflects "bad faith". I have responded to comments a few times, but generally I'm trying to get useful articles out to the Fediverse. (I also post a lot in Mastodon.)

I did write one long comment on voting for Harris, where I stated that it is a difficult decision for me, because each day I get angrier at the Biden/Harris blank check for Bibi. At the same time, I clearly don't want Trump.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago

But you'll continue to post things that might dissuade others from voting, thus helping Trump?

Yeah, I am not buying it.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 2 days ago (3 children)

I wonder how much it hurts to shoot yourself in the foot.

I wonder what lies they will tell themselves about how it's not their fault when Trump decides to support Israel twice as hard as Kamala has.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 2 days ago

Or deport them for being brown.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

You're seeing it from the outside so you won't understand them. They don't have the need to lie when things worsen. Even They've already expected things will be worst under Trump. Just to aid you to understand their mindset: Suffering 100x more by your enemy is much more endurable than the bitterness of being betrayed by your own kind.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago

That's a stupid bit of mental gymnastics.

I don't enjoy cutting off my nose to spite my face, regardless of who is causing it.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 day ago (1 children)

They'd cut off their nose to spite their face?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 day ago

Definitely not all of them. But there might be enough to really hurt themselves. Won't take much.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 day ago

I am sure Trump will do a bang up job as he drives a tank around GAZA just for kicks.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 2 days ago (2 children)

“We are in a moment where our community is suffering and hurting in more ways than we can count. We have also seen four years under a Trump presidency and what that did to our community, and the risks that come with that,” said a spokesperson for Arab Americans for Harris-Walz. “We’re not saying that with a Harris administration there is no risk, but under a Trump administration, the risk is much higher. We believe [backing Harris] is a more favorable path forward for us here in the United States and in our home countries.”

It's not too late, Kamala can pivot to the left and pledge to obey the Lehey law.

If she does, then Israel either changes their behavior or they stop getting any military aid/arms from America.

That's all that needs done, Kamala to pledge to follow the law.

It's not a big ask from voters, and it would hand her the votes she needs in the states she needs to win the election.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The problem is that Kamala (along with every politician in the U.S.) has to weigh the how much support they will lose if they support ceasing armaments to Israel with how much they will gain by doing so. I’m betting the polling data shows fairly conclusively that they’d stand to lose more voter support by ceasing arms shipments to Israel than they’d gain. At the very least, I’m betting that’s the fear of a lot of Democrats.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

So you think trump giving aid to Russia against US law would be ok if it gets him votes?

This is the exact reason turnout is low.

Lots of voters won't hold their nose to blatant crimes even if the only other option does more crimes...

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I didn't say I approved of it, I just said that's the political calculus.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

But you understand how Biden breaking US and international law makes people who are disengaged think both parties are the same?

Like, we can tell at them and scold them that it's better when Dems do it...

Or Kamala can come out and say she'll follow the law. Considering she has said multiple times she has no issues with how Biden has done things and wouldn't have done anything different...

That only hurts Dems and makes trump (way worse shit) look acceptable.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Yeah, that’s nice. You’re still appealing to something moral though, and what I’m trying to tell you is that that’s mostly irrelevant to politicians. They know they need to appeal to the masses to stay in power if they want to do anything, so appeal to the masses they will. And the masses don’t really care about international law.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 hours ago

and what I’m trying to tell you is that that’s mostly irrelevant to politicians.

And what I'm trying to tell you, is even when a politician has the correct letter by their name, they're not infallible...

The people running Kamala's campaign and the DNC are the same ones running stuff in 2016 and 2020.

They have a 1-1 record against trump, and it only worked last time because Bernie drug them to the left.

You need to focus on what voters do, not politicians. And if significant voters didn't care about Morales, the article you're commenting under wouldn't exist

They know they need to appeal to the masses to stay in power if they want to do anything, so appeal to the masses they will.

They only "appeal to voters" when it involves moving to the right.

People want things to the left of Kamala too, and they'd actually vote for Kamala, so it makes sense "chasing" the left, not for Kamala to chase trumpets.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

Wild that you're getting down voted for wanting to comply with international humanitarian law.