this post was submitted on 14 Oct 2024
41 points (95.6% liked)

Privacy

32465 readers
556 users here now

A place to discuss privacy and freedom in the digital world.

Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.

In this community everyone is welcome to post links and discuss topics related to privacy.

Some Rules

Related communities

much thanks to @gary_host_laptop for the logo design :)

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
41
looking for a laptop without wireless connectivity (lemmy.ml)
submitted 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
36 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

I am looking for a laptop (or a tablet with attachable keyboard) that does not come with or allows for physically removing/disabling/destroying of all wireless connectivity hardware. Something cheap, around 200€ would be nice. I would only use this device for word processing, file management, and creating backups on LUKS encrypted drives. Should be able to run gnu-linux.

The closest thing I was able to find was the pinebook by pine64.org, which has killswitches for wifi and bluetooth. Sadly, these are controlled through software and not through a hardware switch.

Does anyone know of a cheap device with hardware killswitches, or a device that allows removing/destroying wifi and bluetooth components on the motherboard (without breaking)?

EDIT 1:

I am looking to buy a new device, not used, and with good enough performance to run a modern desktop environment such as gnome, kde, or cinnamon.

EDIT 2:

Following the advice of some commenters here, I have looked for models that I like, and tried to find a image/video of the motherboard. So far, every motherboard that I could get an image/video of, had the wifi/bluetooth chip soldered onto the motherboard. If anyone knows a brand that offers cheap laptop with modular mainboards, please let me know.

EDIT 3:

Some people here suggested buying an old ThinkPad. I checked for newer models made by the same company ("Lenovo"), and according to their hardware manual, the "IdeaPad" model also allows removing the wifi card, just like the ThinkPad did.

Here is a link to the manual for anyone who is interested (see page 43): https://download.lenovo.com/consumer/mobiles_pub/ideapad_1_hmm.pdf

This solution will work well for my use case and budget. Thanks you all for the advice.

top 36 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 52 points 2 months ago (2 children)

In most laptops you can remove the WiFi/Bluetooth card if you are ok with a permanent solution.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 months ago (4 children)

This would be great, thank you. A permanent solution is what I am looking for. I already looked into removing stuff from the motherboard a bit, and I must have misunderstood something. The information I found was suggesting that this would likely result in the device not functioning anymore.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

See if you can find guides for "Wi-Fi card replacement" for the model that you are looking into. For guides, try https://www.ifixit.com/

If it is a simple matter of unplugging a card (like the image above), it should be easy enough to undo if something goes wrong. Then instead of replacing the Wi-Fi card, just leave it out.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Dang near every model laptop has a teardown video on YouTube. If you had some models you're interested in, look for a teardown video and see if the wireless module is socketed.

I can't think of a modern laptop I've owned that didn't have a socketed wireless card. Maybe one Alienware I owned.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago

Nah, this is a super common thing for laptops that go into secure areas.

Wireless cards (bluetooth + wifi) go into an m.2 Key E slot on motherboards, so they're technically upgradeable to newer WI-FI standards. Some desktop motherboards have this as well. Typically, the chip has two thin cables going to the IO panel on desktops to COAX for antennas to connect to.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

some laptops don't have removable wifi cards, few don't allow you to boot without it installed because of a whitelist

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago

2nd: almost every low-end laptop I used has a module that can be pulled off of the main board to remove wireless features.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Just take out the wifi module. If you need wifi just use a USB adapter. That's your kill switch.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago

This. Most WiFi and by adapters are a seperate small card with black and white antennas connected to them. Fairly easy to identify and remove.

You having trouble focusing on your writing bud?

[–] [email protected] 23 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I literally just bought a framework 13 laptop and was poking around in it (because it’s a repairable laptop). It 100% has a removable wireless card, and I was surprised because I assumed those were all soldered onto main boards these days.

https://guides.frame.work/Guide/WiFi+Replacement+Guide/96

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Having a removable and upgradable wireless module makes sense given Framework's ethos. Wifi is being constantly developed with new versions which makes it worthwhile to make upgradable wifi modules. Last time I checked you could even save some money by not including a wireless modules on the Intel models.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Agreed. Now that said, OP didn’t mention WHY he wanted WiFi hardware removed. Due to framework’s philosophy-it would be absolutely trivial to put one back in. Literally five screws.

Like if I was trying to keep a kid off the internet - it would probably fail. I know I’d just buy a card a pop it in when no one was looking. But I’m a rebel like that. :)

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago

My kids would be smart and lazy. USB external wifi card, done 🤣

[–] [email protected] 14 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

If you're running Linux, another solution would be simply blacklisting the WiFi driver from the kernel.
It's a software solution, but I fail to see any downside to it.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 months ago (1 children)

just get an older thinkpad and remove the wifi/bt module

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

You could also remove the antenna if soldered.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I know you are looking for new but I know in my ThinkPad T480 the wireless card can be easily removed. It's not that old, 2018. Still runs modern Linux wonderfully...and is well supported. It would be more than enough to do what you wanted. EBay is a good place to find them.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago

why hardware kill switch? with Linux u can disable them and unload the associated kernel modules. is that not good enough for u?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)

You can open up just about anything and unplug it

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

Newer Dell laptops I've worked on have them soldered on to the motherboard.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Some ThinkPads have killswitches.

As does the Framework laptops i think... ~~the former can be bought second hand fairly easily~~.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Well, most laptops have removable WiFi cards, ~~but if you want to go the extra mile you could try an early-2000s or late-90s ThinkPad (from back when they were made by IBM).~~

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

kde casually taking 20 minutes to load

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

I think you may be responding to the wrong comment

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago

Disabling it at bios level does not suit your case?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago

Nitrokey sells laptops that let you remove all wireless connectivity. They are also Qubes OS certified.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

The pinebook's privacy switches (for WiFi/BT, camera, and microphone) operate at the firmware level, the operating system has no control over them

https://wiki.pine64.org/wiki/Pinebook_Pro#Privacy_Switches

The keyboard operates on firmware independent of the operating system. It detects if one of the F10, F11 or F12 keys is pressed in combination with the Pine key for 3 seconds. Doing so disables power to the appropriate peripheral, thereby disabling it. This has the same effect as cutting off the power to each peripheral with a physical switch. This implementation is very secure, since the firmware that determines whether a peripheral gets power is not part of the Pinebook Pro’s operating system. So the power state value for each peripheral cannot be overridden or accessed from the operating system. The power state setting for each peripheral is stored across reboots inside the keyboard's firmware flash memory.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I think looking at business/enterprise models would give you the best luck, as some of them should use a PCIe Wifi/BT card so it can be easily upgraded, and you would be able to remove that.

Notebookcheck.net often has images of a teardown in their reviews where you can see if it has a removable wireless card.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

I can’t help you with the budget. That’s not enough money to buy a laptop new with that particular functionality.

If you can tolerate getting something older (and your described use case doesn’t sound like it would prohibit an older device!), thinkpads, MacBooks and the like almost always have removable wireless and Bluetooth modules.

These older devices are often a better choice than newer ones because they’re repairable and parts are plentiful and inexpensive. You will be much happier spending $200 on a used t480 or 2012 mbp than you will buying a new computer at that price.

You need to yank the antennas too if you’re really a paranoiac, but if a killswitch would be enough then you’re very clearly not that person.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

I have an IdeaPad and I can confirm that I can physically remove the Wifi card.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Come to think of it, would it also be possible to remove (or at least physically disconnect on motherboard) microphone and camera from an ideapad?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago

why do you want a new laptop? you get way better quality and performance for the same price with used ones

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

You can probably find something cheap from 1998.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I already tried using old hardware that does not come with wifi/bluetooth. The performance was terrible. 5 seconds to open a minimalistic plaintext editor, and I had to use a very simple desktop environment that was almost unusable due to lack of features. I would rather buy something new, with OK performance (and also I like having warranty). I should have made that clearer, sorry. I updated my post.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago

You gotta use software from 1998, too.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago

there's a middle ground between a 2008 laptop and a 2024 laptop lmao, you don't have to choose one or the other