this post was submitted on 10 Aug 2024

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132

China’s Great Wall of Villages: China has moved thousands of people to new settlements on its frontiers. It calls them “border guardians.” (www.nytimes.com)

submitted 3 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 43 points 3 months ago (1 children)

So China plays literally The Settlers.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Aah, The Settlers 2 is amazing! Might need to reinstall next week to play a bit...

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

Yup one of the best games I've played

[–] [email protected] 33 points 3 months ago

Operation Human Shield?

[–] [email protected] 18 points 3 months ago (1 children)

So Mongolia is not a threat?

[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 months ago

They’re the exception.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Just based on the title it sounds sensible to me. I assume there's some incentive that makes the people want to do this

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (3 children)

Isn't this what the United States did, just without the genocide?

yes, I know they too have committed genocide but I'm referring specifically to this action

[–] [email protected] 21 points 3 months ago

I mean yes, only the US did it more than a hundred years ago. A more modern comparison would be Israel, and, well... yeah.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 months ago

Yeah, and it also somewhat happens as a consequence of building military infrastructure there too. Military bases need people to staff them, and those people need food, water, entertainment etc etc

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

Canada too (1953). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Arctic_relocation

I'm sure it is wrong, but it also the way geopolitics is played.

[+] [email protected] -50 points 3 months ago (3 children)

China bad? This is so obviously framed as aggression by China. This smells of pro-war propaganda, reprogramming people to expect a coming war with China. Be weary of the sneaky China man on your borders! Next they'll tell us Taiwan should join Nato.

Meanwhile the New York Times is supporting Trump and thus supporting fascism.

[–] [email protected] 43 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I mean building villages in areas claimed by other countries is kind of a dick move huh.

[+] [email protected] -22 points 3 months ago (3 children)

But building villages in areas claimed by your own country would be fine, right?

This is the problem with this article, it just assumes that China's claims are illegitimate. I don't know that. Do you? I DO know the new york times has lied in the past and is supporting fascism at this moment. So coming from an unreliable source, this claim should be treated with very much suspicion since it's used to justify a narrative. This article just glosses over the presumably complex historical and international legal questions. But even the fascist supporting new york times makes it clear that China isn't claiming vast swathes of land, but it's merely creeping on the border of disputed areas.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 3 months ago (1 children)

China claims a lot of things, and it's usually bullshit. Same goes for russia claiming land of Ukraine, or Israel claiming land of Palestine.

[+] [email protected] -15 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Sure but the same could be true for e.g. India. But the gist of the article makes no allowance for that. It frames the whole issue as aggression by China. I lack understanding about the history of their borders, but I do understand how propaganda works. But criticize the propaganda and you're called a dissident and tankie. What does that tell you?

[–] [email protected] 18 points 3 months ago (2 children)

The article frames it as defending their border, but also states that 12 of the new villages are on disputed territory. I don't see any propaganda here, which part do you mean?

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 months ago

Anti-china = propaganda

If they're bitching about being called a tankie, there's probably a reason.

[–] [email protected] -5 points 2 months ago

I don’t see any propaganda here, which part do you mean?

Ok I'll try to answer that seriously.

I mean building villages in areas claimed by other countries is kind of a dick move huh.

The existence of the article itself and the framing makes it clear that the spotlight is on what China is doing. Not on India or US. And no, it's not just me, you yourself interpreted the article as intended: China is being aggressive by invading areas claimed by other countries.

The framing makes it clear that claims by China are not even to be considered as legitimate - obviously they have no claim and obviously they are sneaky. This is a clear western bias.

What I see here is a dispute between China and India (and nepal etc). I am NOT in favor of China or their policies. But why is this world news? Do those countries need our help in sorting out their problems? What are we supposed to do?

And THAT is the push towards "war" or "encircling" China. And this isn't the only article I've seen in this vein. For example China's reactions to joint maneuvers between US and Taiwan are framed as threats and aggression from China. This isn't a question of right or wrong or good vs evil for me, it's simply a question of who's home turf you are on and how to reduce tensions. The US does not have the moral standing see e.g. Iraq invasion and WMDs. But it seems we have learned nothing.

So why care? Lefties complain about too high defense spending, but articles like this provide the fertile ground for a general feeling of fear about enemies that could sneak up and attack us if we're not vigilant and spend. And this fuels the arms race of the other side.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago

👌👍

China has definitely earned the benefit of the doubt with regards to its neighbors. I'm sure this isn't a pattern or anything!

How about instead of vague tankie rhetoric you point out specifically what region the times has called in dispute that you and the CCP disagree with?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago

it's merely creeping on the border of disputed areas.

Yeah that's still a bad thing.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 months ago (1 children)

This is one of the dumber conspiracies. No one anywhere on the political spectrum wants war with China. It would lead to an immediate economic disaster, so rich people don't want it either.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 months ago

But the military-industrial complex profits from making it seem like there's an impending war with China.

I suppose it's also true that China doesn't want war, but if they could claim some of those disputed territories without war I'm sure they wouldn't complain.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago