Boomer Math : usauthoritarianism

[–] [email protected] 166 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (6 children)

Inflation is a thing. If she was born in 1946, she would have gone to college around 1964. Which means that her tuition would have been about 7600 dollars today. That's still lower than the average in-state tuition by about 2000 dollars, but just putting that into context. However, minimum wage in 1964 was 1.15/hr, which means it would have taken about 16 weeks at full time minimum wage to pay for one semester tuition vs the 33 weeks it takes today. That's a much better metric of comparison. It would take over a year to pay for a year of school now vs half a bit over half year before.

[–] [email protected] 55 points 3 months ago (3 children)

How does housing and food factor in too though, that’s only one portion of expenses. Entertainment costs far more for example, lots didn’t even really have entertainment than books.

[–] [email protected] 36 points 3 months ago

Also ignores the approximately $1000 of books you’re buying every year

[–] [email protected] 17 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (9 children)

Entertainment costs far more for example, lots didn’t even really have entertainment than books.

This is a bizarre statement. People have had entertainment since society has been a thing. It may not always look like what you do, but it has always been around, and yes, it was more than "books".

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago (3 children)

A podcast I was listening to today suggested that food is more affordable now than it was 50 yo. I don't know if that's true, but it would seem possible given all the science lowering costs for producers (additives, artificial ingredients, preservatives).

[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 months ago

Rent is definitely proportionally higher though, and that's much more of the monthly budget.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago (2 children)

I often wonder how inexpensive produce would be if GMO crops weren't demonized. I know the USA has several varieties of GMO fruit and veg on the market, but it's availability is so scarce, and many countries still outright ban any bioengineered organism.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago

do not mind the gmo crops themself. but the companies pushing them are almost nestle level horrible. open source gmo crops. now sign me up.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Costs are not the reason for higher food prices; it's demand. They charge more because you have no option. The average person has no way or ability to grow food and not much aptitude for cooking. That's a recipe for higher food prices.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago

Cost is a function of supply and demand. GMO crops yield more, so there would be a larger supply, thus driving down cost if demand remains the same. This is totally pedantic though because you're still right:

They charge more because you have no option.

I took capitalist greed as a given... my bad.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

That makes sense, due to breeding one chicken produces more product by a few factors than it used to for example.

But you would probably have to be on a specific diet to achieve it at the same time.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 3 months ago (1 children)

According to https://educationdata.org/average-cost-of-college-by-year the average tuition for a public 4 year school in 1963-1964 was $243 or just under $2500 today.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago

Yea, she probably went to a private university or had out of state tuition... or went to school well after 1964

[–] [email protected] 14 points 3 months ago

Problem is I had to buy somewhere between two and five tuitions worth of education just to get one.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 months ago

It should also be noted that a semester itself is about 16 weeks.

So if you worked 16 weeks full time in the summer and 32 weeks part time during your 2 semesters, you'd have 4 weeks left in the year. At absolutely minimum wage, if you lived with your parents, that's a fairly heavy workload, but perfectly feasible to do.

Now, to pay for 2 semesters, you need to work full time for 66 weeks a year. Can you work full time while going to school? Can you manifest 8 extra weeks of full time work in a 52 week year? Can you even get a full time minimum wage job without your employer cutting hours to deny benefits?

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 months ago (1 children)

If the boss was born in '46 this is true, but she's a lot more likely born at the later end of boomers, since '46 would age her at 78. I'm guessing she's at or below retirement age, not well above it

If the boomer is 60, it would only cost $2,267.87, adjusted.

If they're 65, it would have been 3,245.61.

The numbers I got for tuition today: $41,540 at private colleges $11,260 at public colleges (in-state residents) $29,150 at public colleges (out-of-state residents)

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago

And you could get jobs that covered your housing, food, and more easier in general

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[–] [email protected] 42 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

I just checked the university I went to. It looks like since the 50s, tuition has basically doubled every 10 years. I graduated 20 years ago, so it's roughly 4x what I paid. So yeah, if a boomer graduated 40 years ago at $750 a semester, that would track to $12,000 a semester now. Sounds about right.

If the trend continues, she can bitch at my kids for being lazy in 10 years for not being able to work off a $24,000 a semester tuition by flipping burgers part time.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

We have turned college into the biggest monetary slavery the world has ever seen. I have to believe it had something to do with prepaid college programs; it seemed to coincide with them.

When I went to college in 1980 I got grants. Free money. I wasn't a great student, mostly B's.

What the hell happened when they guaranteed student loans, then made bankruptcy not an option, then stopped including them in credit reports for getting loans, and stopped giving the loans responsibly so they let people over borrow who had no means to pay it back?

What happened was colleges saw the opportunity to make tons of money, guaranteed from the US GOVERNMENT, and without conscious enslaved an entire generation just when we needed them the very most.

Because this small generation is weighed down by the burden of the elderly boomers, the largest generation ever getting old, counting on the economy generated by this generation to keep them alive.

It's sick.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

If student loans were treated as normal loans (e.g. not guaranteed and absolvable via bankruptcy) we'd have boomer prices. The purpose of the student loan scam is to create debt slaves that propagate the bureaucratic managerial class.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago (2 children)

You can say thanks to the authors of the 2005 Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act. Amongst them being Senator Joe Biden. A bill that he defended back in 2020 during his campaign claiming that he "improved it".

Both Republicans and Democrats want to have slaves, Dems just provide a longer leash.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Both Republicans and Democrats want to have slaves

Welcome to the corporatocracy. Education is just another category of the service industries

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

Access to higher education wasn't an issue before all these laws were put into place. People didn't "need" a college degree like they do now. The whole policy from it's inception was not necessary. Now college is basically a ticket to the bureaucratic white collar world that produces nothing. (e.g. bullshit jobs)

[–] [email protected] 17 points 3 months ago (3 children)

The moment you see any dollar amount from the past you need to ask "is that adjusted for inflation" and if it isn't you need to put it in an inflation calculator. This process needs to be second nature because otherwise you will get a very wrong idea about how much something actually cost. And post covid inflation is already skewing mental prices from just a decade ago.

I literally have a shortcut to usinflationcalculator dot com on my home screen. Because I always check for inflation. Always.

[–] [email protected] 46 points 3 months ago (3 children)

If the boomer was 60, it would still only cost $2,267.87.

If they're 65, it would have been 3,245.61.

Tuition today: $41,540 at private colleges $11,260 at public colleges (in-state residents) $29,150 at public colleges (out-of-state residents)

Sure, inflation is a thing, but the difference in dollar amount is still staggering.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago

Ofc, though the problem when talking to anyone older about inflation then they'll think that the cost just increased at the same rate as inflation. But the problem is that tuition in particular is one of the fastest rising costs that has blown through inflation many times over. By showing someone the present value of their tuition against current tuition they'll be able to realize that it outpaced inflation and it is much less feasible to work yourself through college while working.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I feel very lucky to be in the UK. I get to go to imperial for less than the cheapest offerings in the USA.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago (2 children)

it's still £10k / year whereas it used to be £10k for the whole degree.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

Hopefully (slim hope, but nevertheless) Labour will curtail the steady rise of fees we've seen in recent years. Bring back free tuition!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

Yeah but i have a scholarship that covers more than tuition

[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

The moment you see any dollar amount from the past you need to ask “is that adjusted for inflation”

Don't forget to adjust the prevailing minimum wage for inflation while you're at it. $750/semester while earning $7.25/hr hits much differently than $7500/semester while earning (checks notes) oh wait, it's still $7.25/hr.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago (1 children)

And yet, you didn't share the result of your calculation, because it would highlight just how pointless your comment was lmao

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago

Others had already done it. No point in reinventing the wheel.

But here you go

[–] [email protected] 17 points 3 months ago

Sounds closer to my generation's prices that boomer prices. My parents are boomers. They paid like $250/semester. Cheaper for community college.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I went to a community college in the very early ‘90s. Tuition was $28. Parking permits were $25. Outrageous parking fees.

The next year they raised the tuition to $65.

You would not believe the outrage.

My most expensive textbook was $45. That was a huge expense when the rest were $12-$20.

Gen X here. The “good old days” lasted until the early ‘90s.

Then I went to a “real” college and got introduced to $100+ textbooks and yearly tuition that cost what a modest car would run.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago

State university tuition in the 90's was about $1500 a semester. I worked a summer job for $6.50/hr and was able to earn about $1000 (before taxes) in a month. I didn't work for the rest of the summer because I still wanted a bit of a summer break :) But it is absolutely possible back then to work a little part time, then full time in the summer to pay for college. Then you can bootstrap yourself into a career.

Right now, jobs don't really pay any much more, but tuition is 10X or more. Unless parents pitch in, Its impossible for young people to get higher education w/o going into massive debt. I say go into trades and self-employment, it may be a better option nowadays!

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago (2 children)

https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/1960?amount=1

https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/1970?amount=1

$750 a semester in 1960 is roughly $8000 a semester today. In 1970, it's worth roughly $6000.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 months ago (1 children)

A private university today costs an average of $23,000 a semester.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago

Easy peasy, just work three of your asses off instead of just one, and you'll have $1,000 per semester to spare.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago

So..one text book the? lol clueless

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I hope you all appreciate that Biden co-authored the bankruptcy bill that made it all possible.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago

Don't forget the 1996: ANTITERRORISM AND EFFECTIVE DEATH PENALTY ACT

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Out of curiosity, does anyone have a timeline of tuition prices, whether average or of a single university, from 1980s to 2020 or so?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago

I was able to look it up for my Canadian university, somewhat. Every year they issued the Calendar which included a section called tuitions and fees. It can be slightly complex to read depending on the degree you're going for.

https://www.ucalgary.ca/pubs/calendar/archives/index.html

They have all the years it's been digitally available in the link above. I suspect you could go to the campus library and find older publications to go back further.

Generally you're looking for "Undergraduate" and "Fees". Depending on the year it's a PDF, or a table in html.

If you're not used to reading it it can be painful and more complex the more recent it gets. Plus you need to sometimes know terms unique to that university.

I. E. If they say Shulich they are referring to the Engineering program. If they say Haskayne they are referring to business. Most of the other programs are referred to by proper name, I. E. Music, Law, Medicine, etc.

Most programs are 5 courses per semester though some may have you do 6 in the odd semester if you want to graduate in 4 years (alternatively you take longer, like my 4.5 years to get my B. SC, or fit them in in spring or summer)

Generally you can assume a single course is 3 units, and a single semester will be 5 courses, if the table you're looking at is showing you the price per 3 units.

Unfortunately while the course price hasn't gone up huge amounts (until the last few years where they tried to simplify things with categories), all those extra static fees, or extra charges for specific programs, per semester have gone up a lot.

In 2003 the general fees for say engineering were $275. 5 courses were $2190. For a total of $2465 per semester.

Divided back out that's just under $500/course.

In 2013 general fees are $588. Courses are $2666. Engineering specific fees are $30. For a total of $3254.

Divided back out that's about $650/course.

In 2023 the general fees are about $834. The per course rate for engineering is category D, or $908 per course. That's $5374/semester.

Or about $1075/course.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago

If you are a California resident and can somehow find a way to survive in L.A. while going to college, the L.A. Community College system is surprisingly affordable itself.

Really, even out-of-state is super cheap.

https://www.lacc.edu/cost-tuition/tuition-fees

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