this post was submitted on 14 Jun 2024
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[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Yeah, it's totally our fault the Dems have to see how far right they can possibly get away with. And they just "aren't for us" completely diminishes our issues. This is a problem created by the DNC, it is not created by the voters.

Donald Trump was the DNCs fault for running a centrist, dirty candidate. Not ours for not falling in love with her. Your fucking guilting us into voting for a turd sandwitch is bullshit. Stop sucking.

I have and will vote against Donald Trump, but I am not donating and making calls like I did for Bernie. Biden is a big pile of literally not Donald Trump, that's all he is.

The fact that you need grassroots help to win an election when you can easily represent a large majority of the voters by just representing the voters is your fault.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

You may have been taught in school that democracy is an ideal system. But when you become an adult you learn the truth about it. It's not actually about getting the perfect person that everyone agrees with in power. Because that's impossible, people don't agree on anything.

Democracy is really about preventing the worst people from having power. You will never be voting for someone that you 100% agree with because that's impossible, no one agrees on everything. But it's your duty as a citizen to determine who is are the worst people on the ballot and determine which way to vote to either remove those people from power or prevent them from getting it. That's what democracy really is. Welcome to adulthood.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Heaven forbid we try running charismatic candidates like Obama and Bill...

Like, it's insane to me that everyone seems to be aware of what wins elections, but the people running the Dem party just keep insisting we need to shut up and vote for someone very few people actually want.

Like, we can't do this without the voters, they're the irreplaceable part.

We can get different people to run the party, or just coalesce around another.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Democrats need to fall in love. Republicans just need to fall in line.

It's like you read the meme and went yep, totally their fault. I'm ok with my life gets shittier until I fall in love with a politician. It's not my fault. I am owed this.

Is there a term for the political version of an incel?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Yes. It's called a political agitator.

This user canvases lemmy threads with anti Biden and anti Dem strawman arguments completely out of context of the thread. Every thread calling out Republicans for bullshit, this user is there never acknowledging how terrible the GOP is, and going straight into anti dem whataboutism.

Just look at the sheer number of comments this user posts daily. And search the mod logs for deleted comments on this user.

If they're not being paid to disenfranchise progressive voters into abstaining from this election, they should look for a sponsor because they're working for free.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Like. lets talk about what happened.

it's reasonable to claim that Gore actually won in 2000. There were sixty one thousand votes that had not been machine-counted because of rampant, clearly partisan, bullshit reasons (among them "hanging chad",). the Florida Supreme Court ordered a manual count of those ballots with SCOTUS, lead by Scalia, decided to stay because the recount would give Bush a veneer of "illegitimacy". (gee. wonder why, ya fucking partisan hack.) To be perfectly clear, Gore lost Florida (and the electoral college) by 570 votes. The decision in Bush V. Gore to stay the manual recount basically handed Bush the win. (and, I might add, cast doubt on the legitimacy of bush's win. it was handed by a court that had no business ordering that stay. But did anyway, because they're partisan hacks. I'm not angry, honest.)

Kerry flip-flopped more than a fish out of water, making it hard for independents and centrists to know what his positions actually were. 2 years prior to the election he was, for example, staunchly against gay marriage (and lets be honest, the US was very hostile to gay marriage then. There's been a massive sea change in that, but it hadn't happened yet.), but in 2004 signed a letter urging Massachusetts to not outlaw gay marriage. Further, he had the personality of a cold fish. and his running mate was an empty suit with nothing to back it up- who couldn't even deliver his home State of North Carolina.... In short, you had a couple warm bodies running. At the time, Bush was still riding high off 9/11 and the Iraq war and americans were still angry at that; the war wasn't unpopular yet. Katrina hadn't happened yet, and Bush was still reasonably popular. So, of fucking course Kerry lost.

Hillary. Where do we begin? her emails? lets start there.

Sure, "HeR EmAiLs" and "LoCk HeR uP" is an idiotic rallying cry of MAGA morons everywhere. But, even so, she conducted official Sec of State business on a personal email routinely. It's such a great rallying cry because it actually has some teeth. it should be scandalous. Even if she was perfectly not-at-all-corrupt, it looks that way. I- and most everyone else- would be legitimately fired for conducting that level of business off a personal email. it should be 100% unacceptable. Not saying she should have been locked up or grilled the way she was. But seriously. It looked bad. and it played in the news.

Then we got Benghazi. an American ambassador died in a terrorist attack. There's some things that hindsight says they could have done differently. Republicans latched onto it for political theater, with 10 different investigations and multiple sessions of grilling Clinton, who even then was the presumptive nominee to replace Obama. there was some funding that her office denied, she might not even have been aware that "she" denied it. Hindsight's a bitch. Anyhow... the republican shenanigans played well in the media.

Oh. "Super Criminals". Hillary was very unpopular with minority voters- particularly Black and Latinos. sound clips calling for law-and-order tough-on-crime calling black people "super criminals" didn't help. there was a lot there, especially with her attitude, but in the end they simply didn't show up for her. Even if you look at women voters, she under-performed compared to Obamma. (i mean, he looks mighty fine in a tan suit... sorry, sorry. couldn't resist.) Like, how unpopular do you have to be as a woman, to lose women voters from Obama's election, when you're running against Donald- "grab them by the pussy", "When you're that rich they let you do it", "Octopus-Arms" -Trump.

Lets also talk about how she boosted trump specifically because he was "a clown" or whatever. She gave us trump and then proceededly arrogantly not campaign in key states.

oh, and there's more that I just don't have time to get into... but we got Whitewater, Travelgate, filegate; and shit rolls down hill so lets toss in Paula Jones and Monika Lewinsky scandals. Like there's a lot of smoke there, and there might be a couple fires, or maybe they're just really not that corrupt as people and it's all a big missunderstanding. but again, that plays in the media, and it looks bad. Hilary was the definition of The Establishment™️ running against an anti-establismhent candidate. Of fucking course she's gonna lose, and she really didn't help matters by fucking around with not campaigning in key swing states because, "naw, it's fucking trump".

Yup. so aside from Gore, there's really rather good reasons to have not liked them, and the DNC idiots thought they new better and ran them anyhow... and we got fucked because of it. blaming voters for your own stupid blunders seems to be a DNC favorite. And they're doing it again.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago (3 children)

I just want to join in to remind everyone that multiple things can be true at the same time.

  • The DNC/Biden can and should be doing better.

  • We only have 2 options for president. It will be one of the two main candidates because that is how the system works. Don't pretend it doesn't. You either vote for one of those two or you are ok with either.

  • We should be pressuring Biden to do more about both Ukraine and Gaza. Ending both conflicts and getting aid to people.

  • Choosing to vote for a 3rd party to protest Biden's response to Gaza/Israel is only going to help Trump in the short term. Yes, long term Biden and DNC may notice their total votes going down, but in the short term it will put Trump in the Whitehouse and now what? What did you accomplish if the DNC realizes they fucked up, but can't do anything about it because Trump is now a dictator?

  • Politics is a slow moving thing. Too many people expect some perfect ideal candidate or policy and won't compromise on anything. That isn't how it works, you have to compromise and slowly pull things the way you want. It doesn't happen in one election cycle.

  • We should have been and should be campaigning and pushing for changes to our system so that we can have better options in the future. We need to push for Ranked Choice Voting (or anything better than FPTP). And voting in local level elections to make small changes across the country. Term limits. Campaign finance reforms. Etc etc. because until we get a new system we effectively can't just vote for who we want or it doesn't do anything more than a fart in a hurricane.

I see a lot of people who are saying they will not vote for Biden because the Gaza/Israel issue. Which I completely understand. But the two truths you have to accept in doing so is that you will not be complicit in the genocide. But you will be complicit if Trump wins. Both can be true. You decide which one you would rather see. If you don't want Trump then the only option is a vote for Biden. And until we reform our voting system we don't have viable 3rd parties and pretending we do is just delusional. Look at every election for the last hundred years and you will see enough proof. It's not ideal, but it is reality. **Accept it **so we can change it together.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

I would add that there ARE things you can do to help stop the genocide, that are not refusing to vote. I absolutely believe that the demonstrations, protest votes, calls to congresspeople, and so on, are part of what’s behind the changes to the US’s Israel policy recently (sanctions on settlers, pause in the weapons shipments, stuff like that - that’s nowhere near enough and no excuse for Biden’s support for Israel during the “war” and before it, but also, nothing ANYWHERE near that has happened in 75 years of consistently war-criminal support by the US for Israel).

All that stuff makes a difference and can help stop the genocide. Refusing to vote does nothing to stop the genocide and risks putting someone in office who is much much worse (actively wants to kill more Palestinians.)

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

You will be ok voting for genocide. Gotcha

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I miss when Lemmy was a socialist platform. It's full of "vote blue no matter who" people now

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago (29 children)

I mean, voting blue no matter who is still in my best interest.

I hate it and it sucks, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

What the fuck is this shit? Motherfucker, I lived through these elections, and this is some boomer revisionist bull shit.

Al Gore lost because he couldn't differentiate himself from god-damned George W Bush. He was too centrist to encourage the left base to show up for him.

Kerry lost because he couldn't articulate his better vision for America, and was too centrist to encourage the left base to show up for him.

Hillary lost because she didn't even try to reach out to the left base. She was too centrist to beat Donald Fucking Trump.

Three ostensibly intelligent leaders who lost their elections to fucking morons because they thought that they didn't need to try very hard to reach out to progressive voters.

Any one of them would have been a better President than what we got, but the fact that they all lost means they did something wrong. It isn't the fault of the voters demanding better, it's the fault of the party failing to meet the demand.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Quit putting up shit candidates assholes!

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Yeah I never understood wanting to vote for the "guy I want to have a beer with" thing.

The guys I have beers with are nice enough and funny at times, but I sure as hell wouldn't want them running the country.

I want a boring as fuck, never misses any details, workaholic kind or person running the country. Someone I wouldn't want to have a beer with because all they ever talk about is their job.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Bernie Sanders over here, consistently battling for the working man, despite both parties doing everything in their power to ignore him.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

ignore him

Not true, they shifted focus to him for a while so they could do everything in their power to kneecap and malign him when he had a plausible shot at giving them the presidency in 2016, and grabbing them support from a generation of young voters who were for the only time in their lives actually wholly excited to vote for somebody, anybody, who seemed like he might care about them and want to do great things with the awesome power of the American presidency.

He was the most popular politician in America for YEARS after they decided he wasn’t their guy, and is still more popular today than either Biden or Trump.

I want to put a sad emoji here, but I can’t actually find one that is sufficient to convey what I want to express about it

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Not saying you shouldn't do the right thing when the choice is limited, but how about the DNC stops putting its finger on the scale for unpopular establishment candidates?

It's clear that the 'safe' choice can still lose, so why not go for the person the base actually likes instead of another centrist wet napkin who appeals to no one?

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