this post was submitted on 22 Jul 2023
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looks like rendering adblockers extensions obsolete with manifest-v3 was not enough so now they try to implement DRM into the browser giving the ability to any website to refuse traffic to you if you don't run a complaint browser ( cough...firefox )

here is an article in hacker news since i'm sure they can explain this to you better than i.

and also some github docs

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Ad Blocking is cyber security

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

The FBI recommends using an ad blocker: https://www.ic3.gov/Media/Y2022/PSA221221

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Malvertising (a portmanteau of "malicious software (malware) advertising") is the use of online advertising to spread malware.
It typically involves injecting malicious or malware-laden advertisements into legitimate online advertising networks and webpages.
Because advertising content can be inserted into high-profile and reputable websites, malvertising provides malefactors an opportunity to push their attacks to web users who might not otherwise see the ads, due to firewalls, more safety precautions, or the like.
Malvertising is "attractive to attackers because they 'can be easily spread across a large number of legitimate websites without directly compromising those websites'."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malvertising?wprov=sfla1

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

A better quote

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (4 children)

We need more browser options, not just Firefox and 20 versions of chrome.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If you have the funds, donate to Mozilla. They're not only the main developers of the only major competing browser engine, but also do a lot of other good work. You can hope for others, but with Firefox only having single-digit usage share it needs all the help it can get.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

You can’t legally donate to Firefox, as it is developed by a Corp (Mozilla Corp.). Donations go to Mozilla Foundation, which does… other things with you money. In other words, your money don’t go towards FF development.

So, if you donate thinking that your money helps Firefox development, you're doing it wrong.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

To be fair, there are about 20 versions of Firefox too. It’s just that most of them aren’t there to Hoover up ad revenue.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I completely agree, but don’t forget that WebKit exists too on Mac and Linux with about the same market share as Firefox (at least based on w3school’s stats). Chrome/Blink dominate but all hope is not lost and there are more options, they’re just small. I think focusing on embracing Firefox/Gecko as it has so much momentum and community already is the most productive way forward though

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

The only reason WebKit has any market share left is because iOS/iPadOS forces it on their users even if you try to use other browser

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They don’t even have builds. How can we support tools the bulk of users can’t easily implement or recommend non technical people to try?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

You can support by joining the project and helping them to fix issues. It's a young project, but they've been progressing really fast. Andreas Kling is one of the original developers of Safari, and in the past years he's been creating his own operating system (Serenity OS) and formed a team who've been doing their own JavaScript engine, web browser and a programming language together with the OS. It's a really fascinating story and I give all the respect for them for doing this. This is the work we have to do if we want to beat Google from taking the internet. It's us who need to step up and start fixing the internet.

https://awesomekling.github.io/Ladybird-a-new-cross-platform-browser-project/

https://serenityos.org/

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Stop using Google products I don’t know how else to fucking say it.

Chrome -> Firefox Drive -> sync or Dropbox or any number of options Sheets and productivity tools > libre office or Apache open office YouTube -> Invidious or even better, odysse Google search -> duck duck go, SearXNG, StartPage, etc Gmail -> not a ton of great options. I’d probably recommend proton mail but the FOSS email world is definitely lacking, or gets blocked or goes down, harder to self host etc.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

helped with formatting:

Chrome -> Firefox

Drive -> sync or Dropbox or any number of options

Sheets and productivity tools > libre office or Apache open office

YouTube -> Invidious or even better, odysse

Google search -> duck duck go, SearXNG, StartPage, etc

Gmail -> not a ton of great options. I’d probably recommend proton mail but the FOSS email world is definitely lacking, or gets blocked or goes down, harder to self host etc.

And I agree for sure. In order I use firefox (and brave sometimes), Proton Drive, Apple Productivity suite (pages, numbers etc), and either startpage or qwant, and proton mail. I do still use use YouTube Premium, but the point is Google doesn't need to have its fingers in every aspect of my digital life.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

FYI, you need two new lines (hit Enter twice) to actually get a new line in Lemmy.

Two new lines One new line.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

-->since everyone is confused about this i'm gonna try to explain as best as i could and also clearing some misconceptions:

1# why this is such a big deal ?

if this gets implemented AND it gets widely adopted websites now can refuse to give you content if you are running a non complied browser, remember those website that say "oh you are using an ad blocker so disable it to access our site" they can detect this by various methods but ultimately all of them rely on running a JavaScript into your browser. which you guessed it, its easy to modify and tamper with manually or using extensions

now what WEI-API does is that it can verify the integrity of the web page ( JavaScript/HTML/CSS has not been modified ) and even tell the website what extensions - ad blocker detected no content for you - you are using and what browser you are using - firefox or brave detected no content for you - and do not be fooled into thinking that this can be spoofed. and website owners who think that they are running a business not a charity will implement this.

2#will using firefox save me?

if this gets widely adopted and you inevitably encounter a website that require this ( for your job ,school or your bank ) you have no choice but to use chrome just like when your banking apps refuse to work because your phone is rooted which means that SAFETY-NET is broken

3#why this is a threat to begin with?

this is only viable if the web adopt it so why bother?, well guess what google is famous for making its services very easy to integrate and well documented just look on how easy it is to integrate google analytics and google adsense* into websites and how many of them use it in the internet.

4#what can we do to prevent this?

this is my personal opinion but i think we simply can't, this not like the reddit incident were very large portion of the user base was upset most people don't know/care/give-a-fuck about web technologies and how they work.

#and Finally "but google said they don't plan to use this to fingerprint you (Device ID) or track your browser history or interfere with the work of extensions"

do you really believe that a company like google whose bread and butter is advertising would not make it easier for themselves, a company who has been exposed time and time again for lying and having ulterior motives ( you don't need to look far just look into what manifest-v3 did )

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

remember those website that say “oh you are using an ad blocker so disable it to access our site”

I can easily imagine this not being a necessary, anymore. Just let the website using this WEI API automatically disable all browser extensions on a WEI-enabled site. Why not, after all? Why should you dictate the traffic you receive on your computer? Why should you own anything?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I will happily stop visiting any website that demands I use an approved browser.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Well, those of us who care all say that but I for one have to access government and banking websites in several countries, if they implement this I have no choice. This abomination must be prevented in the first place.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You can use Chrome for those websites if they completely break, and Firefox for everything else.

Banks and government websites don't tend to have adverts.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

We can criticize the EU, but they would not allow or force people to install Chrome in order to access government web sites.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Remember when browsers just browsed....

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I really want to push the What's Cool! button

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Guess why I don't use the Chrome ecosystem and don't depend on Google.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Users like visiting websites that are expensive to create and maintain, but they often want or need to do it without paying directly. These websites fund themselves with ads, but the advertisers can only afford to pay for humans to see the ads, rather than robots.

Won't you think of the poor poor ad companies?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Half the internet now seems to be bots creating content purely for the enjoyment of other bots. Typing any kind of difficult question into a search engine will now have you dodging a minefield of AI generated articles, none of which contain any useful information other than what they've scraped from other AI generated pages.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Yet another vitally important front in the war on general purpose computing (it's a short and important read imo)

Fuck Google, and fuck DRM.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

"Do no evil." ...unless it's projected as profitable, in which case, evil that shit up!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

They ditched the "don't be evil" years ago. Now it's "As many ads as possible".

I hear that they can cover up to 80% of a user's visual field without inducing seizures.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

This is exactly why everyone should use fully idenpendted browser like Firefox

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I work at a vpn/adblocker company and we just finished releasing an updated mv3 extension that does block ads effectively (among other things) but the feature set is limited vs mv2 because of the changes. Furthermore, google has actually pushed back their mandated release schedule for mv3 compliance because something less than 30% of the extensions on their store are anywhere close to ready for it (which if they pushed ahead with mv3 they would effectively break 70% of what's on there overnight).

The DRM shit is just next-level bad though. Enshitification 101.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Also it’s not kinda drm, it is drm. Like fr

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago
[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

How is the worlds biggest ad distributor also the worlds biggest browser maker without it being an anti-trust violation?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Dude if they make youtube accessible only through Chrome we gonna have some problems.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I'd have to stop using it. I'd even go to another service like Nebula, at that point, and pay for it.

But I am not going to start running Chrome on my home computer as a daily driver.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Louis Rossman made a video about this and especially where he quotes users from HackerNews hammers the point home for me. Firefox will be forced to adopt this "feature" if it ever becomes reality, as Chrome has overwhelming market share and the average user only cares that the site loads.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Firefox won't even implement something as mundane as WebSerial because Mozilla has deemed it "harmful", I really can't see them going along with this.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

not OC: this comment written by [email protected]

It’s a [16 minute] video with many points and better if you watch it. However, here’s a break down of key points, made to be as simple as possible - there’s a lot more technical stuff, but I’ll try to keep it concise and less technical.

This is probably about a 10 minute read if these concepts are not familiar to you:

  • Google owns Chrome (not Chromium), and they dominate the market ever since they won the internet browser wars.
  • As an amoral corporation (not evil, simply lacking morals), their business runs on advertisements.
  • They’re revealing a new feature called Manifest v3 which is a locked down version of the browser that’s built around what they feel is security and trust.
  • Under their proposal for Manivest v3, your browser will have to be “verified” in an attempt to keep you “safe”. Are you a human or a bot? They’re making a more trusted internet with trusted software.
  • Companies like Netflix, news web sites, etc. will eat this up and implement the proper protocols to use Manifest v3. To visit your bank’s web site which has this protocol, you’ll need to use Chrome’s browser.
  • Using Chrome’s browser, you’ll need to authenticate yourself and become a “trusted” user. With this enabled, you can then visit your bank’s web site.
  • If you use an alternative browser that isn’t approved, you won’t be able to use that web site.
  • Eventually other corporations will implement these protocols, too, and you’ll be locked out from participating in the internet.
  • Google, an ad company, gets to control advertisements better, gets to learn more about their users, and now gets to mark them as “trusted”. In other words, you get the North Korean version of the internet, “Mommy and Daddy’s Safe and Approved Internet”. Meanwhile, North Korea and Mom/Dad get to spy on you, see what you’re up to, monitor you, control you, and shape you. The benefit is they also make money off you by selling the information they learn about you.

Why is this bad:

  • It’s censorship. It’s like your mom and dad grabbing your phone, computer, enabling severe parental controls, giving it back to you, and they get to see and approve what you’re allowed to do and say at any time. Apply that same protocol to your money, too. Want to send money through the internet using PayPal? Even more censorship. Want to watch Netflix? Your parents lock it down so only certain things can be watched, at certain times, and certainly under their permission.
  • It buries competition and makes Google even more of a monopoly. We already know Google Search is bad (advertisements, phishing web sites, auto-generated content web sites are always the first results in Google.
  • Digital Rights Management. Just a bit north of 20 years ago, when you purchased a digital product, you could own it. Streaming didn’t exist. In an age where “buying” no longer means “owning”, this new protocol will further enforce DRM. Pay for Netflix and want to watch it? You’ll have to be a Trusted User that uses Chrome. Bought a new video game you’re excited to play on Steam? You’ll need to be a Trusted User. Don’t want to stream music through Spotify and instead use something like Bandcamp? To make a purchase at Bandcamp, you’ll need to be a Trusted User. Don’t want to buy something through Bandcamp and instead just download what you already paid for? You guessed right - you’ll need to be a trusted user to even login and reach your downloads. Don’t forget your downloads are hosted on servers that are run by Google and Amazon - you’ll have to be a trusted user in order to download from that server.

Can I use Firefox and stop using any Chromium browser

  • Most browsers are Chromium: Chrome, Brave, Ungoogled Chromium to name a few. They will all eventually implement Manifest v3, and if they don’t, they will disappear.
  • Firefox is not Chromium, but think about how many users use Firefox now. Google Chrome has the overwhelming market share and has captured users into their platform.
  • Because the majority of users use Chrome, corporations have to evolve to adopt Manifest v3: banking web sites, governments, job applications, benefits, healthcare, personal emergency, etc. All of these will be forced to adopt it because that’s where the users are, and Google will force corporations to participate. After all, banking web sites will face less downtime through Manifest v3, because bots won’t be able to spam them and try to get in. Netflix will have to spend less money on security, because only trusted users will be able to even reach Netflix. Your “free” email service through Gmail now stops all spam because it only accepts incoming messages from trusted users. Of course everyone will adopt it - Google is safe, secure, and trusted. And best of all it’s “free”!
  • If you use Firefox now and continue to use it, you’ll be safe for several years. For now.

What can we do?

  • Right now, you can opt out of using Chrome by using Firefox and other decentralized tools.
  • In the not too distant future, there’s not much that you can do. Educating users to switch from Chrome, use Linux, use stock Android (e.g., Graphene OS), will not help.
  • Eventually, the users that use Firefox, Linux, stock de-googled Android will get locked out. An average user isn’t going to invest their time to learn these platforms. They’ll stick with what works: “I can login to Chrome and watch my Netflix and pay my bills. You’re telling me that this Linux thing doesn’t let me do that? Screw that, I’ll use Chrome OS - at least my shit works! What’s wrong with these Linux developers, they can’t get anything right! They should take a lesson from Google and fix their shit.”
  • Write your politicians and hope that some governments will help restrict this rollout. Keep in mind though that some version of this will get passed and approved. Also don’t forget that corrupt regulators and politicians are captured and owned by corporations. This will get passed, there’s no doubt about it.

What will happen 20 years from now?

  • Humans have tenacity. You can only frustrate humans so much before they break. Take away too many of their freedoms, impose many restrictions, and eventually they will break.
  • The trick for all of time, seen throughout history by all our overlords, kings, emperors, etc. is to find a careful balance. Take away “just enough” freedoms. Give them “just enough”. Work them until they’re tired, but don’t let them break. And of course, give them a few handouts here and there, but not enough to make their lives easy.
  • Manifest v3 (or its derivative) will be implemented. There’s no doubt about that at all.
  • The 99% of the population will continue to use these services because they want to be able to participate: They have to pay bills, access money, access healthcare, use government systems, do education, have entertainment, etc.
  • The 99% will continue to use this because they won’t care. So long as they can be happy enough, they will persist.
  • Eventually, an infinitesimally small minority will be affected by something. Something will break and cause them to snap, and they will do the only thing that an individual human can do: opt out.
  • That small minority will leave, opt out, and refuse to participate in the system. Those clusters will grow at an extremely small rate because they’re able to recognize the whole picture and see that personal freedoms are so restricted. They’ll remember their history and learn from it.
  • Enter decentralization - the removal of power from centralized powers.
  • Those who recognize decentralization will build new platforms, and others will eventually follow. This is why the Fediverse and Bitcoin exist. They recognize the problem of centralization and are full of users who decided to opt out. The Fediverse adoption exploded with the 2023 Reddit API problem, and the constant Twitter issues under Elon Musk. Bitcoin happened in 2009 out of anger from the 2008 global financial crisis when “Satoshi Nakomoto” decided to build a new economy of money that had “rules, but without rulers”.

What happens 20+ years from now?

  • In 30 years when more of the population realizes their freedoms are under attack, they’ll consult the ones who left 10 years previously.
  • In 40 years, you might have choice. There may be a “new Firefox” that pops up after the old Firefox was wiped out 10 years ago, and let’s you use the internet, your IP, and your content in a different way.
  • The trick is to train yourself to see the big picture. You’ll never defeat your overlords - they’re behind tall walls and they control the money. However, you can opt out. You can refuse to participate. But by doing so, remember that you will be locked out. That’s not an easy choice to make.
  • But those users that do opt out, they will be the ones that were pushed too far. This is why refugees leave their homes - they just want to be safe, they want to be alright, they want their freedom from their opressors.
  • We will have “Google Internet” (Manifest v3) refugees one day

not OC: excellent original comment here from https://programming.dev/comment/1256612 based on https://programming.dev/post/865990

more by [email protected] here and here

Louis Rossman video alt sites https://onion.tube/watch?v=0i0Ho-x7s_U https://inv.zzls.xyz/watch?v=0i0Ho-x7s_U https://invidious.io.lol/watch?v=0i0Ho-x7s_U https://vid.puffyan.us/watch?v=0i0Ho-x7s_U https://inv.citw.lgbt/watch?v=0i0Ho-x7s_U

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Small correction: While Chromium is not "owned" by Google, Google employees are the main contributers and the project is controlled by Google Employees. Chromium will absolutely support whatever Google wants it to support.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago

How does it impact Chromium?

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