I feel like for a number of the allies, their main goal has been to drain Russia of resources, even if it costs the lives of Ukrainians.
this post was submitted on 18 May 2024
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Yeah although if Russia wins it'd involve "unstable geopolitics" too.
This could be a long war.
I said it many times before - no one wants this war to end except for Ukrainians. It's just a very profitable venture for the rest of the world.
For the US maybe, but I don't think it is profitabel for Europe.
Refugees aren't cheap (even though ukrainian people might integrate easier than others and later add value), a good part of money for weapon purchases flows towards America since they have more immediate capacities, and long term we do want to integrate Ukraine, which means Europe will ultimately bear a significant chunk of rebuilding costs.
Ukrainian refugees are great. They're highly educated, have high standards of work ethics and are just great people overall. I'm definitely biased as a person from xUSSR country who is also 1/4 Ukrainian myself, but I'm really glad to see more Ukrainians in Europe.
Putin will want it over. It's an embarrassment to him that Ukrainians don't want him and have resisted him so effectively.
And lose all the money? Haha, no.
Kyiv’s allies “fear” Russia’s loss in the war against Ukraine because it would involve “unpredictable geopolitics,” according to Zelensky.
Is “unpredictable geopolitics” a euphemism for 'nuclear war'?
While we really don't want a state with thousands of nukes to splinter, I doubt that any policy writers in DC feel that way, given the eulogies they gave to Navalny, a guy who had politics somewhere around Mussolini's and made Putin look like a dove.
But also the fact that we have like 8000 tanks in the desert that we're not sending tells me that they'd rather fight Russia to the last drop of Ukrainian blood than actually break Russia so who knows.
While we really don’t want a state with thousands of nukes to splinter
People said that would happen after the fall of the USSR too. Turns out treaties and agreements can do a lot to stop things like that quickly.
On the other hand, such an agreement is what Russia is violating right now.
Russia didn't splinter with the fall of the USSR. People who had control of the nukes retained their control. And Ukraine was forced to move theirs to Russia.
This is and always has been a proxy war and a siege meant to exhaust Russian resources slowly and without rapidly escalating to more destructive methods.
How is it a proxy war if it was russia which started it?
People forgot quickly how hesitant the European countries were, and still are, to send equipment to Ukraine. Germany didn't send anything but helmets for a long while. They also cancelled North Stream, leading to increased inflation and lessened economic competitive viability. If anything, the proxy war is exhausting both Russian and European economies, with the US and China ready to scoop up the scraps in preparation for their intensifying trade war.
Why would they? Much of Eastern Europe expects the US to step in for defense, and use that fact to justify lowering expenditure on their own military.
Sweden has that shit figured out though
Don’t fuck with the Swedish
The European countries bordering Russia, i.e. the Baltics, Nordics and Eastern Europe, contribute a far bigger percentage of their GDP to aid Ukraine than the others (if you ignore the new policies of Slovakia and Hungary). The US and UK gives/sells the most weapons, but Ukraine is pretty much bankrolled by the EU/EEA.
The point is that the EU has sustained big economic losses from cutting ties with Russia, leading to movement of industry and production away from Europe and over to the other biggest economies.
Yeah, it’s a difficult situation. I haven’t looked at the recent numbers regarding European countries contributions and their own militarization, I’m sure they’ve drastically increased since the war started
Yes. Germany and many other European countries had little to none political support for investing in their militaries. Now they do, and it is going to be a problem later on. Capitalists want return on their investments, after all.
The EU is very much on the top of the global neocolonial food chain, but they were mostly (looking at you France) not doing like super a lot (looking at you UK and US) of "interventions" to secure their interests all over the world.*
* Most Western powers are part of NATO, which is its own can of worms. Still, Russia invading Ukraine has made support for NATO much more popular (see Sweden and Finland as case studies), and now the bloc is more consolidated than ever. The timing could not be worse with respect to the overtly fascist leaders gaining traction in the very same countries.
great point re: contribute a far bigger percentage of their GDP to aid Ukraine than the others
Slovakia and Hungary
Will be fascinating to see what happens next with Slovakia. And Georgia's protests don't seem to be dimming either. Hungary... eh....
Everyone in Europe knows really well that there is a reactionary wind blowing through the lands. Historically, this has been conducive to conflict and war. The conditions are different right now than then, but I fear not enough.
I would love a different world order based on international cooperation in lieu of exploitation, but I do not see this as a probable outcome of tensions rising and reactionaries taking power.
It is definitely worth keeping an eye on the protofascist and overtly fascist movements gaining traction, since they pretty much tell us exactly how they are going to fuck things up.
Unfortunately this is a big part of why the first big summer counter-offensive by Ukraine stalled; NATO delayed aid by just enough that it guarunteed the war would drag out.
Personally I think it's about money for the industrial military complex. If the war had ended quickly while Ukraine had men, momentum and the initiative it would mean less money for industrialists.
Even US generals like Patreaus were predicting the delay by the Biden admin on F-16s etc. would lead to a massively protracted conflict.
It makes one ashamed that when our country finally does have a righteous cause for our massive military complex our leaders are still playing grab ass trying to make a buck while Ukrainians are fighting to exist. It's one of Biden's (and NATOs) biggest failures.
The insane amount of power that US military industrial complex has over our country and therefore the world is completely fucked.
Eisenhower was right.
Ukraine is already beaten. This is nonsense.
It's been two years, mate. If Russia hasn't won yet, that means they can't.
That's a poor analysis and untrue. Ukraine doesn't have the soldiers to defend their positions anymore. They will not be able to stop the Russian advance. You'll see soon enough. How many Ukrainians need to die still?
Z or GOP?
What's "Z" in this context?
Z = pro invasion russian
Neither.
Ah an uncommon defeatist liberal still wanting to throw in the towel this many years later. I'm guessing you were posting that Ukraine would fall in 2 days at the start and then fearmongering every military aid delivery as setting off WWIII. Might I suggest finding a new hobby? Being consistently and repeatedly wrong over the last few years can't be good for your mental health.
All of your assumptions are wrong.
Exactly. It's weird that people don't get this.