this post was submitted on 02 Dec 2023
745 points (93.9% liked)
Technology
59575 readers
3478 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Streisand Effect
Free Palestine from the river to the sea.
What I don't understand, as someone who doesn't support Hamas or Netanyahu, is why you would chant that.
Like, where would Jews go? Is that actually a real solution? Only super old people actually came to Israel from another country, most of the Israelis don't know any other home
Well for one, Jews and specifically Israelis don't have to go anywhere for Palestine and Palestinians to be free?
Like the slogan just does not at all necessarily imply what you're imagining (or what the US congress claims) it does. That slogan's been around longer than Hamas.
The slogan is being used by far right israelis too. And it is implicitly genocidal for both sides. Israel is here to stay and so is Palestine. Both sides need to accept this so we can move towards the next goal, defining which lands go to which side.
Israel needs to be charitable and give back land, remove settlers, etc. And in response Palestine needs to control its people and guarantee the safety of Israel.
A lot of Israel's landgrab is because of security concerns or at least thats Israel's excuse. If Palestine can remove that excuse by providing security, things can become a lot simpler.
The problem is that Palestine does not exist as a country with a unified government, partly because of Israel(supported hamas, etc), so Israel continues having legitimate security concerns.
To be fair, we do say the same thing about "all lives matter." An objectively true statement that can border on hate speech depending on context
It's not the free part I have an issue with, it's the geography
Exactly, it's the whole "black lives matter" vs "all lives matter" thing all over again.
We saw how that played out in the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict. After it was "freed" by Azerbaijan, 100,000 people were displaced. Sure, they didn't have to go, but some people don't like living under a dictatorship.
Gaza didn't have an election since 2006
You know the original slogan in Arabic? What slogan it's translation of?
min al-mayyeh lil-mayyeh / Filasṭīn ʿarabiyyeh (من المياه للمياه / فلسطين عربية 'from the water to the water / Palestine [is] Arab')
Literally 75% of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza choose it as the explicit genocide option on a survey that Includes one state for two people as an option. This is a poll done by a Palestinian university in the west bank, claiming its Israeli propaganda would be pretty stupid. All the US congress did was assert to the public what the meaning is to a super majority of Palestinians in Palestine. The diaspora pushing a different narrative never speaks up when the crowds chant the Arabic version that ends in "Palestine will be Arab" (or "Palestine is Arab").
https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20Opinion%20Poll%20-%20Gaza%20War%202023%20-%20Tables%20of%20Results.pdf
Jesus christ, Israel is literally a British colony. Getting Jews out of Europe was exactly what the Nazis wanted.
Zionism isn't some centuries old thing; it's based in British colonization tactics. It started in full force only around 70 years ago to serve British military interests in the region.
The companies made are literally called "Colonization Commission" and 'the Jewish Colonial Trust'
Israel, EU, and the US should decolonize the region and return it to Palestine. Where they go is up to those governments to manage, because they started this. But that goes against their profit incentives, which is to keep the middle-east divided through war, keep oil cheap, and prevent them from uniting against the imperial core, no matter how many hundreds of thousands of civilians are killed in the process.
People are being displaced and forced out of their homes by settlers and military right now. Fuck colonizers.
The PFLP, the second largest Palestinian liberation group after Fatah, calls for a secular Palestinian state where Jews, Muslims, etc. will live together in peace. Modern Fatah even accepts a two-state solution (and they have every right not to). Only Hamas is mixing up Zionists with Jews, and that's entirely because of Israel and the Imperial core's constant oppression, displacement, and now genocide of the natives.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
People are being displaced and forced out of their homes by settlers and military right now
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
It's a thought terminating clishe. It's easy to avoid complex issues if you can just repeat a quick little chant to get out of critical thinking.
It means that Palestinians living in West Bank and Gaza should be free from Israeli oppression and Palestinians living in Israel should be free from apartheid. It doesn’t mean kicking people out.
That isn't what it means. You are trying to RetCon history to align with present day values. Stop it.
Literally 75% of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza choose it as the explicit genocide option on a survey that Includes one state for two people as an option. This is a poll done by a Palestinian university in the west bank, claiming its Israeli propaganda would be pretty stupid.
https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20Opinion%20Poll%20-%20Gaza%20War%202023%20-%20Tables%20of%20Results.pdf
The gas lighting is intense. The charitable take that people are ignorant just says a lot about their knowledge of the region and the conflict.
'48 Palestinians in Israel also are full citizens https://www.timesofisrael.com/amid-war-poll-finds-arab-israelis-sense-of-kinship-with-state-at-a-20-year-high/ their situation has vastly improved and labeling it apartheid is ignorance. That label can only apply to Gaza and the West Bank and arguably then even when compared with actual apartheid. There are Arabs in parliament, on the Supreme Court, and in the highest ranks of the IDF. Like fuck, Benny Gantz, one of the three ministers in the war cabinet, was shit talking in Arabic during the ceasefire because Israelis learn Arabic in school too. A significant number of the troops killed in Gaza are Druze, another minority Abrahamic faith that speaks Arabic with a large minority population in Israel. Highest standard of living for their minority in the region. There's a movement since the war started to enshrine them in Israel's Basic Law (constitution).
There are covenants all through Israel that forbid travel and residency by "full citizens" Palestinians of Israeli citizenship. There are separate schools. Do we not remember "separate is not equal"?
They chant that because it means something different depending on who says it. The Palestinians have been chanting this slogan for many years since the PLO times. The call was to unite the people to show unity between the people of gaza to west bank. However, when Hamas took power, the chant turned into something antisemitic. So you will hear both sides now, unite the people and wishes for terror.
Israel can't and shouldn't exist in the future.
An ethnic religious state can never be free.
But it will exists, so maybe try to work in thay framework for a solution
Free Palestine from the river to the sea. 🇵🇸🇵🇸
Debunking : "From the river to the sea" is a call to genocide.
Debunking that Blog is really easy. All you need to do is listen to actual Palestinians in Palestine instead of anonymous blogs.
Like a survey conducted by Palestine's Birzeit University's Arab World for Research & Development (AWRAD)
Literally 75% of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza choose it as the explicit genocide option on a survey that Includes one state for two people as an option. This is a poll done by a Palestinian university in the west bank after the start of the war, claiming its Israeli propaganda would be pretty stupid. All the US congress did was assert to the public what the meaning is to a super majority of Palestinians in Palestine. The diaspora pushing a different narrative never speaks up when the crowds chant the Arabic version that ends in "Palestine will be Arab" (or "Palestine is Arab").
https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20Opinion%20Poll%20-%20Gaza%20War%202023%20-%20Tables%20of%20Results.pdf
No calls for genocide please.
Yeah I agree, Israel should stop actually committing genocide.
That wasn't what I meant, and you knew it. Well done!
Yeah, actual facts. Simply trying to stick to actual genocide instead of illusory projected genocide.
And the October the 7th was just a friendly little fight was it? Oh no, that was genocide.
International groups like the UN and Amnesty International talk about ongoing genocide. It is Israel that is committing this genocide. What you speak of is also terrible and sad. But Israel chooses this path, not Palestinians. So long as a group of people remain harshly oppressed, without food, water, education, healthcare, infrastructure, jobs, freedom to travel, freedom from being caged in, having homes taken from them at gunpoint or by bombs, we will continue to see bloody resistance with asymmetrical reaction.
Israeli quote from an open letter in Haaretz newspaper in 1967 right after the 6 Days War: "Our right to defend ourselves against annihilation does not grant us the right to oppress others. Conquest brings in its wake foreign rule. Foreign rule brings in its wake resistance. Resistance brings in its wake oppression. Oppression brings in its wake terrorism and counterterrorism. The victims of terrorism are usually innocent people. Holding onto the territories will turn us into a nation of murderers and murder victims. Let us leave the occupied territories now."
October the 7th was an act of genocide. It was the biggest single loss of life of Jewish people since the holocaust.
I'm not saying that Israel are handling things great either btw. But the term "to the river to the sea" is genocidal, and October the 7th was also genocidal
For all the people still in denial, that is a genocide slogan.
All you need to do is listen to actual Palestinians in Palestine instead of anonymous blogs.
Like a survey conducted by Palestine's Birzeit University's Arab World for Research & Development (AWRAD)
Literally 75% of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza choose it as the explicit genocide option on a survey that Includes one state for two people as an option. This is a poll done by a Palestinian university in the west bank after the start of the war, claiming its Israeli propaganda would be pretty stupid. All the US congress did was assert to the public what the meaning is to a super majority of Palestinians in Palestine. The diaspora pushing a different narrative never speaks up when the crowds chant the Arabic version that ends in "Palestine will be Arab" (or "Palestine is Arab").
https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public%20Opinion%20Poll%20-%20Gaza%20War%202023%20-%20Tables%20of%20Results.pdf
So basically you are saying this:
Palestinians committing genocide:
Israel committing genocide:
Fuck off with that, its just as genocidal as the zionests.