this post was submitted on 22 Apr 2025
347 points (91.6% liked)
Europe
5857 readers
1169 users here now
News and information from Europe πͺπΊ
(Current banner: La Mancha, Spain. Feel free to post submissions for banner images.)
Rules (2024-08-30)
- This is an English-language community. Comments should be in English. Posts can link to non-English news sources when providing a full-text translation in the post description. Automated translations are fine, as long as they don't overly distort the content.
- No links to misinformation or commercial advertising. When you post outdated/historic articles, add the year of publication to the post title. Infographics must include a source and a year of creation; if possible, also provide a link to the source.
- Be kind to each other, and argue in good faith. Don't post direct insults nor disrespectful and condescending comments. Don't troll nor incite hatred. Don't look for novel argumentation strategies at Wikipedia's List of fallacies.
- No bigotry, sexism, racism, antisemitism, islamophobia, dehumanization of minorities, or glorification of National Socialism. We follow German law; don't question the statehood of Israel.
- Be the signal, not the noise: Strive to post insightful comments. Add "/s" when you're being sarcastic (and don't use it to break rule no. 3).
- If you link to paywalled information, please provide also a link to a freely available archived version. Alternatively, try to find a different source.
- Light-hearted content, memes, and posts about your European everyday belong in [email protected]. (They're cool, you should subscribe there too!)
- Don't evade bans. If we notice ban evasion, that will result in a permanent ban for all the accounts we can associate with you.
- No posts linking to speculative reporting about ongoing events with unclear backgrounds. Please wait at least 12 hours. (E.g., do not post breathless reporting on an ongoing terror attack.)
- Always provide context with posts: Don't post uncontextualized images or videos, and don't start discussions without giving some context first.
(This list may get expanded as necessary.)
Posts that link to the following sources will be removed
- on any topic: RT, news-pravda:com, GB News, Fox, Breitbart, Daily Caller, OAN, sociable:co, citjourno:com, brusselssignal:eu, europesays:com, geo-trends:eu, any AI slop sites (when in doubt please look for a credible imprint/about page), change:org (for privacy reasons)
- on Middle-East topics: Al Jazeera
- on Hungary: Euronews
Unless they're the only sources, please also avoid The Sun, Daily Mail, any "thinktank" type organization, and non-Lemmy social media. Don't link to Twitter directly, instead use xcancel.com. For Reddit, use old:reddit:com
(Lists may get expanded as necessary.)
Ban lengths, etc.
We will use some leeway to decide whether to remove a comment.
If need be, there are also bans: 3 days for lighter offenses, 7 or 14 days for bigger offenses, and permanent bans for people who don't show any willingness to participate productively. If we think the ban reason is obvious, we may not specifically write to you.
If you want to protest a removal or ban, feel free to write privately to any of the mods: @[email protected], @[email protected], or @[email protected].
founded 10 months ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I hope that this exchange has convinced you that the AfD are nazis.
I am sorry to tell you but if I didn't know better, this exchange would have made me question the critics of the AfD and start seeing the AfD as the choice of reason.
You say there are lies but you just offer a strawman argument in the form of a sack of potatoes. If you don't back up these claims I usually conclude that they are wrong.
You don't have to convince me that the AfD is ineligible. I am with you. But you can't claim that the AfD makes up causes and you make up your own. That makes all your claims unbelievable.
Hi friend, I hope you are well. Remember this exchange? In the meantime, the German federal service for the protection of the constitution has found the AfD as a whole to be "assuredly right-wing extremist", which is legalese for "they are literally neonazis and we have proof".
That's good but besides my point. My issue is that you make up conversations.
Making up things is bad because it may mislead people. My example was an accurate representation of that party. "Sieg heil" is even a direct quote.
Would you also object to me making up quotes about Mussolini or Stalin if these are to the best of our knowledge accurate depictions? Probably not.
Yes I would.
You normalize fake quotes. Then the AfD can also make up quotes and claim that that represents foreigners.
You understand that it is bad when the AfD does it. Generalize that understanding. There can't be exceptions for fighting the good fight. Everybody thinks they do.
I understand that it is bad when it misrepresents the actual state of things.
Let's generalise. Is a painting bad? Is a description bad? Yes if it is used to mislead people. No if it portrays things accurately.
Holding yourself to the highest standards of correctness serves no one. The nazis - which we can now officially call nazis, by the way, it can no longer be seen as hyperbole - do not even use words according to their meaning, and they won't be particularly interested in your view of that matter.
You can't fight nazis with honourability, just like you can't fight intolerance with tolerance. It's a paradox.
How many people thought of themselves as better-behaved in 1935? Do you think they reconsidered their position in 1941? It doesn't matter, the window of opportunity to prevent the nazis from irrevocably installing themselves has passed.
You can't reason with fascism. They only understand violence. It's terrible, yes. No one wants to use violence.
Then again, the German constitution has provisions for fighting nazis with all means necessary as a last resort, so maybe we can just make them fuck off? Or do we wait until the 21st century version of 1939 and quibble in the meantime?
The choice is yours, as it is mine.
I will read your full comment later. Just note that there is no attestation that they are nazis. So you don't use the words according to their meaning.
This is becoming a pattern.
What would you call e.g. these assholes:
No, the word has not lost its meaning, but it has become less niche: some of them are better at hiding it and waiting for the right time, some of them want to make people forget what it represents and a lot of people are too lazy/stupid to distinguish between nazi/fascist/autocrat/authoritarian/ultraneoliberal or anyone who aspires to become one of those.
Right, if you wish to steer the conversation into ad hominem then I think it is best to end it here. I wish you and your loved ones peace and prosperity for the future.
Thanks and I wish you the same in return.
Let me try a final approach. For me, the conversation is ad hominem from the start. I don't disagree with your judgement of the AfD. My point is that you don't reason with the AfD but with people who are on the fence of deciding between AfD and other parties. You should't write your comments for fascists to read but for regular citizens. Being correct is to appeal to them.