this post was submitted on 14 Mar 2025
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[–] [email protected] 254 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago) (1 children)

The “just following orders” stage

[–] [email protected] 74 points 22 hours ago (3 children)

If I were to carry out this order, I would refuse. Who cares whether she's "legal" or not - deporting a sick child is simply inhumane. Those goddam monsters!

But yes, that's quite right. The reign of terror in Hitler's Third Reich was also only possible with those who carried out orders and clung to the idea that they were not responsible. Hannah Arendt described all this very well in "The Banality of Evil".

[–] [email protected] 10 points 15 hours ago

Reading this now, and it strikes me as all the things I should have been taught about the Nazis beyond just the enormity of their cruelty:

Most important of all, how often just a little pushback stopped them stupid.

A student strike in German-occupied Belgium was enough pushback to stop the enforcement of the extradition of Jewish people there.

Italy, an ally at the beginning, would just say they would extradite their Jewish population, then not actually do it, in a loop, leaving the Germans frustrated simply by being lied to to their face and incapable of making progress.

You're left with a picture of a bunch of bureaucrats following orders who are incapable of comprehending disobedience nor knowing how to handle it.

[–] [email protected] 50 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

Though I suspect a large proportion of those in ice are doing it because they like the cruelty, the ones that are doing for the paycheque fall into the category you mentioned.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago) (1 children)

Yes, there are certainly many who are just inherently evil, but I don't think that's the majority. I think most of them are like Eichmann: objectively speaking, of course, they are also evil, but they don't get satisfaction from their cruelty. They simply don't question what they're told because it's their job - and that's enough of an excuse for them towards others and also towards themselves. Doesn't make them any less guilty, though, I would say.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 12 hours ago

The banally evil are the federal workers who document the files, who maintain the vehicles used to deport children, the healthcare workers who gave up on this child without a fight, etc. Those are guilty of collaboration but most probably aren't doing evil for its own sake.

The ICE guys making the arrest are the fucking Gestapo. There simply is no excuse to be made for police who arrest sick children, that is a more than sufficient condition to be called Capital E Evil.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

Because you would refuse you would not be the one asked to do this order. You have a functioning conscience, which makes you unqualified for such a position.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago)

Well, I'm from Germany. Fortunately, our terrible history is still taught in every school here - in pretty much all its horrible detail.

That's why it's important to me to warn US citizens before it's too late. I'm not so sure I would be courageous enough to stand up against such atrocities if I had to face deportation to an extermination camp, as I would have in Hitler's time - please don't do as the Germans did and fight back while you still can.

I mean there's a world of difference between posting something somewhat critical on social media and actually having to fear consequences for life and limb. This is only for the really brave. I'm not so sure I'd be one of them if it really came down to it.

Don't let it get that far in the first place!