this post was submitted on 29 Jan 2025
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submitted 1 day ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
 

I mean... I kinda get it, but nowadays it's starting to get absurd.

(EDIT: This was supposed to be a "blow air out my nose and get on with my life" meme...)

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 day ago (14 children)

You may or may not think China is "authoritarian" but how on earth are they fascist?

[–] [email protected] 49 points 1 day ago (5 children)

Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, and ultranationalist political ideology and movement,[1][2][3] characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.

Far right? Hm, maybe not. Otherwise: Check, check, quasi-check, check, check, check, ...

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 day ago (2 children)

China has become a psudo Capitalist country in its quest for world domination.

Capitalism goes hand in hand with right wing extremism

I think China would have to do a lot more for the avg person before they could be considered socialist or communist again

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Socialism isn't when the government does stuff for the people, it's when the people take matters into their own hands and do stuff for the good of each other. Even if a state behaves in the most benevolent way possible, it is not socialist unless the workers have collective ownership of the means of production.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

By that definition there are no socialist countries.

When people talk about socialism in the real world it doesn't mean owning the means of production

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Only because the very concepts of ownership and the collective-individual dichotomy are necessarily vague and subjective. China considers themselves socialist because they equivocate the people with the state. If the people are collectively represented by the state and the state owns (some of) the means of production, then at least transitively the people own (some of) the means of production.

As an anarchist I don't believe the state adequately represents the interests of the people, nor do I think it could even if it were radically democratic and egalitarian, though I would still certainly prefer that to the existing status quo. Somewhere a line must be drawn arbitrarily and I prefer to draw it on the other side of authoritarian state control.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 17 hours ago

China considers themselves socialist because they equivocate the people with the state.

Isn't that kinda the line between socialism and communism? That communism has no state, but that a socialist state can act as a sort of intermediary.

Not that it's the only socialist model, mind you; a market economy composed entirely of individual private worker co-ops is another model, for example. Then there's the issue of implementation, whether the people actually democratically control the government.

But ideologically, while not communist, I don't see how that structure can't be considered socialist.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

I think China would have to do a lot more for the avg person before they could be considered socialist or communist again

Within the last five years China completely eliminated the worst category of poverty in their borders. I'd say they are currently actively engaged in doing a lot more for the average person than most countries.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 20 hours ago (2 children)

If you can take the Chinese Government for their word. Which I can't

[–] [email protected] 4 points 18 hours ago
[–] [email protected] 2 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago) (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago) (2 children)

I'm sorry but a dictator for life is a dealbreaker.

I'll admit that a truly dedicated and benevolent dictator could run a good society, there are a few examples in the past too.

But it's going to collapse once daddy dies like every dictatorship.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 19 hours ago

What makes you think Xi is a dictator? If your answer is "because that's the vibe I get from American Government propaganda", then you should reassess the things you think you know about the world. The truth is that China has a very vibrant and active democracy that is much more responsive to the demands of its people than that of most other nations, and Xi is merely the one currently at the top of that democratic system.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

So... Authoritarian, and not far right... So... Not fascist.

Calling a government fascist, but not far-right is like calling Death Valley a lake. There's no fucking water (anymore), its not a fucking lake.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 16 hours ago

Mate, the only thing missing from that list to also check far right would be extreme conservatism. No idea how much China is conservative and how much that matters compared to other things. It would be like death valley in a different country.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The far-right part is critical though. It’s kind of like how breast cancer needs to be in breast tissues. China is just authoritarian.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (19 children)

Tradition is big. E.g TCM crap over science

You cannot disagree with the state

Stokes fear and hatred of outsiders

Blames social frustrations on those outsiders

Appeals to restore past glory

Han ethnic supremacy

You could go through all of Eco’s points and apply them to China pretty fittingly.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 hours ago

Appeals to restore past glory

Genuinely, what on earth are you talking about? China's past is full of poverty, humiliation, and exploitation, literally, "The century of humiliation!" The only people who "appeal to restore past glory" are the CIA-funded Shen Yun performances romanticizing "China before communism." The Chinese people I talk to will specifically point to the Qing as a clear demonstration of the danger of clinging to tradition and the necessity of adapting and looking forward.

China literally had a cultural revolution seeking to abolish tradition. I expect you would call that fascist just as you call if fascist whenever some people still follow tradition, after all:

“During the cold war, the anticommunist ideological framework could transform any data about existing communist societies into hostile evidence. If the Soviets refused to negotiate a point, they were intransigent and belligerent; if they appeared willing to make concessions, this was but a skillful ploy to put us off our guard. By opposing arms limitations, they would have demonstrated their aggressive intent; but when in fact they supported most armament treaties, it was because they were mendacious and manipulative. If the churches in the USSR were empty, this demonstrated that religion was suppressed; but if the churches were full, this meant the people were rejecting the regime's atheistic ideology... What we are dealing with is a nonfalsifiable orthodoxy, so assiduously marketed by the ruling interests that it affected people across the entire political spectrum.”

[–] [email protected] 1 points 16 hours ago

You cannot disagree with the state

Technically you could make thinly-veiled criticisms against local governments, but just not the central government or Xi Jingping

Or you can talk shit about the government behind closed doors, there are no telescreens like Orwell's 1984.

TCM crap over science

That shit is fucking annoying. My mom keep telling me anti-depressants are bad 😓

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago (10 children)

Been on xiaohongshu for a while now and the chinese netizens I interacted with were nothing but kind to foreigners even when we treated them like shit.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

Anecdotal evidence means nothing, doubly so from a .ml troll.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

You can literally go on XHS or douyin and speak with them yourself

[–] [email protected] 2 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

I’ve lived in China. I’ve had Chinese live with me. I actually know shit without going on social media and being fed propaganda.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago)

Do tell, I'd love to know about your experience there

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