495
An independent voter explains why they chose a moronic, oligarcho-fascist demagogue over Joe Biden (c. November 2020) [Day 58]
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this post was submitted on 26 Jan 2025
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I'm sorry, but if you didn't vote Dem in this election, you're an idiot of the highest caliber.
Vote Trump, you're an idiot for obvious reasons.
Vote anyone else in an election like this one, you're an idiot. The 3rd party candidate with the most votes only got half of a single percent of the total votes. In other words, no 3rd party candidate had even the whisper of a chance of winning.
If you're willing to gamble on a sure-to-lose scenario in an election as serious as the 2024 election, you're an idiot.
Trump very obviously played the left with the help of Netanyahu while throwing the democrats under the bus, and the left ate it up. While the right unified, the left splintered into micro groups all hating on each other for having differing opinions within the left. I’m hearing Americans now saying “well it’s the Dems fault…” great, you sure showed them huh?
Those people did the equivalent of chopping off their own foot, but calling it a win cause they got blood on the other guy.
Yup. I hope the "Biden is committing genocide" and "Dems didn't solve every problem known to man" are happy with their new president they helped elect.
Are you seriously disagreeing with the assessment of Biden committing (or being complicit in, potato potatoh) genocide? Or is it only talking about it that you have a problem with? Or making the assessment that it makes a politician unsuitable to hold office? In my not-completely-fucked-in-the-head reality, that's pretty much the sane take.
No.
I'm being an adult that accepts the reality I live in.
In that reality there is basically no scenario where America gives up its most important long-term ally in the Middle East over a never-ending religious conflict they're having with someone else.
So, being that's the reality we live in, I can determine that the situation is INFINITELY better off in the hands of one party than the other. So I voted for that party to mitigate the damage that we're now going to see due to a bunch of idiots that didn't want to accept the reality they lived in and ended up making the very thing they cared about worse.
I also voted for that party because I'm not a moron single issue voter and I know there's a lot else at stake right here at home.
I asked what specifically you had an issue with, and gave three possibilities. Which one are you saying no to? This screams "evasion" that you just say "no" and then start in with a bunch of vague platitudes. You won't even pin down what you're saying. Speak up.
Genocide is not infinitely better than genocide. It is actually delusional to think that a political system comprised of two parties which have a near-total consensus on committing genocide are operating independently. You can frame this as a "tough choice adults have to make" as much as you want, but the fact that you have no coherent explanation about why this is happening shows you're just playing games instead of facing reality.
Again - genocide is not a "single issue". It shows that on the spectrum of morality, a politician is at absolute zero. Pure evil. It negates every other stance they supposedly have, because it proves that they value absolutely nothing except their own benefit. If you can sacrifice millions of humans, you are an absolute devil. If you vote for someone like that, no much how much anguish you supposedly subject yourself to while you're doing it, you're a fool and a useful idiot at best, and as evil as the politician at worst. And back to the point of "the parties are not actually independent", this speaks only to you failing to understand that voting for either of these parties sacrifices everything that's at stake. It is the public shooting itself in the foot and thinking they're being strategic.
I said "no" because I mean NO to all three. I'm not typing it 3 times for you. You are not important enough to me to say no to each of your questions. You get one no, because I utterly disagree with you, in a sweeping manner.
Sure it is, when the alternative is a WORSE genocide. Are you so simple that you can't grasp that death and lots more death are different things with different degrees of severity? You keep saying hefty words like "evasion" and "delusional", but you're an individual that can't tell the difference between a person that expresses their disapproval directly to the person committing a horrific act and a person that says "full steam ahead" to that person. So I'm going to use a hefty word on you. Ignorant.
Yes, it actually, literally is.
Yes. The world is black and white. There are no shades of grey. To simpletons.
If war crimes, or what you perceive to be war crimes, remove a candidate from contention for you, then you'd never vote for another president, ever. Very mature stance you've taken there.
Or you're simply an adult trying to make sure the significantly worse option doesn't become reality.
But you, you are simply someone sitting on the fence, dishing out morality from what you believe is your high horse.
Because your alternative to voting for 2 "genociders" is to either not vote or vote 3rd party, which are unquestionably stupid things to do. Why? Because not voting is profoundly stupid. And voting for a 3rd party that CANNOT win, is also profoundly stupid. The 3rd party candidate with the most votes only got half of a single percentage of the total votes. A 3rd party CAN NOT WIN.
So excuse me if I'm tired of listening to someone pretending they're a moral authority while contributing absolutely nothing to the situation, at all.
Just vomiting out another page of black-hearted defense of genocidal politicians and their supporters. Fucking disgusting. Shame on you.
So far this new president helped stop the genocide that Biden was supporting.
Looks like your hero turned out to be the villain.
*Edit: added link
Biden sent 14,000 of those bombs as of July last year. Enough to kill roughly a million people in a concentrated enough area. Some critical context you missed in your framing of the situation.
Has been ongoing at this increased pace for about a year. Are you just hearing about it now?
You guys truly struggle with this. Both of them are complicit in the genocide. Stop trying to make one of them look good just because you identify more with him.
And no, I do not agree with Maalus's take just because I'm under his comment arguing with you.
First of all, just because he did something good doesn't make Trump "my hero". But feel free to say that, that'll 100% work to convince people. Second of all - all I know is the situation from my friends there. And they are returning to their old workplace. They are talking about rebuilding. Right now they got a reprieve, with a ceasefire agreement from October, that was refused then, with the US government saying "it's Hamas who refused it" which was obvious bullshit. They are also getting medical devices in. So yeah, I'll believe the people who are actually there, over a random dude on lemmy, thanks.
You're the random dude on lemmy who claims to "know people" vs the random dude on lemmy who cites his sources.
Israel and Netanyahu preferred Trump by a wide margin over Kalama, so unless you're a Zionist I wouldn't recommend celebrating yet.
You actually think the legal dept. over at NBC and CBS would allow them to publish quotes from the POTUS that weren't true? Those are actual quotes of what Trump said. But, yeah, believe what you feel like believing.
He didn't. You're just ignorant.
Boy are you woefully misrepresenting reality. If cognitive dissonance were a solid, yours would have its own moons.
So it was Biden who got the ceasefire?
Ahhh. I get it. You live in a month ago. Here, let me at least catch you up to somewhat recently:
So trump is going to help Israel turn Palestine into a glass crater……
And then there’s this disaster of a plan
And lastly, let’s not forget that his take on the subject is to “clean out the whole thing”….
So, I’mna go ahead and let you get to reading- hopefully you can get caught up to currently, and I’ll ask that once you arrive at now, you do your best to keep up with the rest of the class. Because you living in the past seems like a huge inconvenience- and not just for all of us…
What ceasefire? The one that was violated immediately?
I'll take "Utterly Moronic Comments Stated Unironically" for $500, Alex.
Kewl funny quirky meme! Shame it lacks any substance and literally contradicts what I'm hearing from my friends. But by all means, close your eyes, stick fingers in your ears and go "lalalalalalala can't hear you lalalallalala" like the grownup you are.
Support for the GOP correlates heavily with the presence of a fossil fuel industry in a given state or electoral district. It also tilts heavily by gender, with women and pocs tilting heavily Dem (black women vote ~~Republican~~ Democrat in the 90-95% range) while white men are around 2:1 Republican.
The party politics flows accordingly, delivering the red meat their base voters crave while focusing the more material policies toward their respective donor bases.
What's really fucked things of late has been Dems pandering to factions that don't actually support them (huge Dem support for AIPAC when Israel special interests were leaning hard right, huge Dem support for the domestic tech sector when Bezos/Zuck/Elon were throwing their support behind Trump, Harris parading around with Liz Cheney to the cheers of basically nobody).
Republicans and Democrats both love a big rug pull. The difference on Lemmy is that you'll see plenty of people recognize the scam that is $TRUMP coin the moment it is announced, but you'll still see them doggedly defend Biden for stiffing college debtors while throwing billions into an Infrastructure Investment Act for a Silicon Valley crowd that hate him.
Agree with most of what you're saying except
Biden did more for college debtors than any president, ever. Did he entirely eliminate college debt? No. No one who was critically thinking actually thought that was going to happen, because what was probably going to happen was what ended up happening. A bunch of roadblocks got thrown in his way, including the Supreme Court. But he still eliminated many millions of dollars in college debt for a lot of people.
There's no doubt that the Democratic party is not particularly great at running campaigns. But that doesn't absolve the American populace from their duty to be reasonably informed. The Democratic party can run a dogshit campaign and people who are reasonably informed can still look at the hard data and see which party is a better bet for the economy and average Americans.
And to be clear, in a sane world, they did run a better campaign than the Republicans who ran on hate, fear, and absolute ridiculousness. IMMIGRANTS ARE EATING PEOPLE'S PETS IN SPRINGFIELD, OHIO.
That shit worked because Americans are pretty goddamn stupid. That's not the Democrat's fault, especially since they actually vote in favor of our educational system instead of trying to privatize it, like Republicans. The brunt of this shitshow we find ourselves in falls squarely on American voters and their lack of education/morals.
That's true! They're very stupid.
Since this has been proven twice, it is now a known fact, what should the democrats do next time to enrapture these very stupid people and ensure a decisive victory against the enemy?
I mean if we're taking 2024 as a lesson, I guess Democrats should run a campaign of non-stop fear and hatred based propaganda lies.
Apparently that's what gets votes in America.
And this is the.. only other option?
Screaming this over and over again, but college debtors still won't vote for me.
Surely you meant they vote Dem in this range.
Typo. Yes.
Someone can tell me why they voted for Trump and right away after that abuse of power became OK and rule of law in US significantly deteoriated? In democracy it would be possible to right away impeach Trump, or re-count the votes, or investigate it, or something like that...
Because it's "their team."
I truly wish there was more to it.
Not to say the 2024 pres. election wasn't important, but when was the last election where you would have said "sure, go vote for that 3rd party"?
Never.
Why?
Because no 3rd party has done the necessary work to become a nationally viable party. No 3rd party will be viable until they start investing in candidates in local/state elections.
There is no cheat code to make a 3rd party candidate president. 3rd parties have to start winning local/state offices, then get representatives in the House, then the Senate, before even having the possibility of running a candidate that can win a presidential election.
Anyone voting 3rd party for president is extraordinarily ignorant and assisting in the decline of this nation on the fastest timeline possible.
Oh look, it's Lemmy's resident "fuck third parties" guy posting again.
How about "anyone who votes for a politician committing genocide is fucking sick, and that applies to the vast majority of American voters."
We had this thread last week. I personally spent days laying out every single detail of American empire and oligarchy and how the two-party mechanic is used to mindfuck the public into compliance. Turned out people on your side were completely wrong. Can you just go back and read those threads instead of starting the same fucking argument all over again.
edit: Like me or my position or not, the point remains - why are we endlessly starting the same conversation over from scratch when we already had it?
Naaah… it didn’t turn out that the people on their side were wrong at all, just that you disagreed with them. And what really happened was- it turned out that you couldn’t have a conversation without insulting people and getting your shit removed for trolling.
I agree though. People absolutely should read those threads, however- it’ll be a little confusing unless they access the modlogs to get your… take- on a few of those discussions.
I am getting pretty sweary these days, getting really tired of pseudointellectual Americans whitewashing their genocidal government. On Lemmy no less, which is supposed to be a refuge from the state propaganda outlet Reddit turned into, but no, you all had to come here and ruin this too. And shout out to the mods who erase key messages from those discussions, because having an authentic, emotionally charged, organic discussion about America's responsibility for genocide is apparently too much for people to handle.
Educated people can make their own judgment without you coloring in their reality for them, thanks.
Right, however, you’d have to be able to appeal to educated people first. And I don’t think you’re capable of it to be honest. Don’t get me wrong, cosplaying the “ackshually” meme would have been a great idea if it weren’t for the fact that people generally don’t like that guy very much.
But you do you.
Oh, and a bit of advice- I’d be careful with hurling that… “pseudointellectual” accusation at other people- especially in a comment thread where your modlog was made easily accessible. Glass houses being what they are.
(Oh, and, it’s pseudo-intellectual by the way, so- mind your hyphens)
Anywho, I think I made my point. There’s no real need to continue this.
What point? A personal attack and a nitpick about hyphenation? Is that the substance of your argument in defense of people who voted for mass murderers?
This is exactly what we're talking about when we say Democrats are obsessed with "respectability politics" and don't give a fuck about morality. What the fuck is the point of your message? All you're doing is asserting superiority. You're not saying anything. Just don't even reply, be silent.
I’m going to need a napkin for all that irony you’re dripping.
Have a good evening for yourself.
I wish this site had a working block feature like reddit. Some of these people just need to be cut out of responding. "Hide their messages endlessly taunting you and dancing around the point even after you've left" is not the same.
Yeah. I get ya. Most people get around that by simply not talking down and respecting others. And right now, it looks like for the most part, you’re getting what you give- only unlike you, I’m not derogatorily admonishing you to feel superior. I’m doing it to hold up a mirror.
Again, your modlog is public.
So maybe you can stop with the arrogant life-lessons, opinions-stated-as-facts, and pseudo-intellectual lectures and learn to have a bit more respect for the people you speak directly to.
Be humbled. Then be better.
This is exactly why I don't respect you - you're talking about everything but the GENOCIDE.
Stop responding to me. You're not "humbling" me, I'm disgusted by you. Your complete moral failure here is enough before you start adding on the condescension, which you then go and accuse me of in return.
I rest my case.