I hate how “anti-war” has been hijacked by these people to mean, let imperialist countries invade whoever they want with no consequences. (in the case of tankies, any imperialist country that isn’t in NATO).
this post was submitted on 14 Dec 2024
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Russia invading Ukraine is wrong. But the world is full of wrong things. And until America fixes its problems at home, it is deeply immoral to drain the economy and weapon reserves and put our citizenry at risk. Anyone who believes the politicians usual garbage about "protecting democracy" and "standing up to imperialism" is a moron.
Did you know that "own people first/eigen volk eerst" is the slogan of a Belgian far-right neo-nazi party?
There is nothing immoral about helping a people in need.
You're very naive to think the US war machine is "helping a people in need". Even Boris Johnson admitted this is a proxy war. They're sending ukrainians to die just to mess with Russia. They have no chance of winning anything.
Boris Johnson is well known for being an idiot. Ukrainians are fighting for their land and their freedom, they're not being sent by americans.
yup. this.
Do you think we have no free will here in Ukraine or something? It's so easy for you to dehumanize us as some puppets who have no agency and are "sent", "made", blah blah blah. Fuck off.
They don't care about you, they care about the idea of you. Just like how so many idealists self-righteously "fighting" the genocide of Palestinians by being armchair warriors on the internet have never actually talked to any Palestinians. Or even tried to.
Stay safe, my friend. I am sorry America will likely not have your back much longer.
Just to offer you a perspective on what other people think, not that you asked for it but idk, don't read if you're not interested :) I'll be brief.
America not having their back might bring about a truce treaty, which would stop the war, the bombs, the people getting killed. I think across the political spectrum from "tankies" to Trump supporters and everything in between, lots of people are hoping for a fast peaceful outcome.
Your willingness to give land that isn't yours away is noted.
It's not my land to give, it just seems to me that trying to take it back doesn't work, and I question the motives of western states and if they genuinely believe in victory, or if they're just fueling the war to weaken their enemy.
It's not yours to give and yet you think giving it away is a solution. So I repeat my previous post.
Also, maybe you should care less about the motives of the people helping the victim and more about the victim.
We're talking about genocide here.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/in-ukraines-genocide-case-against-russia-the-uns-top-court-says-it-has-jurisdiction
Would you feel the same way about Israel and Palestinian territory? Taking it back hasn't worked and the motives of those aiding Palestinians aren't pure, so let Israel have their way?
I don't think giving it away is a solution. It was already taken, by force. The question is, can it be taken back, and at what cost?
In what way am I not caring about the victim in this case? I think you're assuming I'm not taking this seriously, or that I think Ukrainians deserved it, or shit like that. But that's not the case at all.
And the analogy for the Palestinian genocide would be like so: should the west arm palestinians so they can defend themselves? And the answer imo would be no. They would still fail to defend themselves against such a strong adversary, and it would only aggravate the conflict.
Sounds like you're saying Israel should just get to keep what they've taken by force too.
Nope. And Russia shouldn't get to keep what they've taken by force either. But it's not like we could give weapons to those palestinian children and they'd be able to turn this conflict around. That's an extreme example of this problem. Ofc Ukraine is much more developed, and has trained soldiers and stuff...
Anyway as I said before, the argument remains - are the west fueling a proxy war at Ukraine's expense, or are they helping them win? Maybe one day we'll find out.
You're simultaneously saying Russia should get to keep what it's taken in Ukraine and that it shouldn't. Which is it?
I'm not saying they should get to keep it, I'm questioning whether prolonging the war will make a difference in the matter.
What exactly do you think would get Putin to stop this war?
I think our free will is being manipulated by the media, manufacturing consent. This goes for people in Ukraine, Europe, the US, Russia, everywhere.
There are some good Youtube videos on the subject if you're interested.
I think you would find that bombs being dropped at night on your city, country, your friends and loved ones, schools, theatres ans hospitals, by a "brotherly nation", whose leader speaks a lot about your country being fake, over the pretence of fighting some "nazis" apparently, would do much more to directly influence your free will than Youtube.
3 day operation that is now in its 3rd year...
Isn't this idea that the conflict was intended to last only 3 days something the media says to portray the russians as weak and incompetent?
Afaik at this stage of the conflict they're fighting so Ukraine can reclaim its lost territories. They've been at this stage for a long time and it doesn't seem doable. This is why many lefties are against the war. Because if you know there's no chance to win but you keep fueling the flames, you're just sending those people to die just to weaken the enemy, which is a pretty shitty thing to do.
Anyway this is just one point of view, might be a very stupid one, but I think it's worth taking into consideration.
Russia clearly stated at the start it would only take them 3 days. Russian officers had pre-booked tables in Kyiv restaurants on the 4th day. They were that confident it was going to be over that quickly.