this post was submitted on 18 Oct 2024
152 points (93.2% liked)
Europe
1474 readers
349 users here now
News and information from Europe 🇪🇺
(Current banner: La Mancha, Spain. Feel free to post submissions for banner images.)
Rules (2024-08-30)
- This is an English-language community. Comments should be in English. Posts can link to non-English news sources when providing a full-text translation in the post description. Automated translations are fine, as long as they don't overly distort the content.
- No links to misinformation or commercial advertising. When you post outdated/historic articles, add the year of publication to the post title. Infographics must include a source and a year of creation; if possible, also provide a link to the source.
- Be kind to each other, and argue in good faith. Don't post direct insults nor disrespectful and condescending comments. Don't troll nor incite hatred. Don't look for novel argumentation strategies at Wikipedia's List of fallacies.
- No bigotry, sexism, racism, antisemitism, dehumanization of minorities, or glorification of National Socialism.
- Be the signal, not the noise: Strive to post insightful comments. Add "/s" when you're being sarcastic (and don't use it to break rule no. 3).
- If you link to paywalled information, please provide also a link to a freely available archived version. Alternatively, try to find a different source.
- Light-hearted content, memes, and posts about your European everyday belong in [email protected]. (They're cool, you should subscribe there too!)
- Don't evade bans. If we notice ban evasion, that will result in a permanent ban for all the accounts we can associate with you.
- No posts linking to speculative reporting about ongoing events with unclear backgrounds. Please wait at least 12 hours. (E.g., do not post breathless reporting on an ongoing terror attack.)
(This list may get expanded when necessary.)
We will use some leeway to decide whether to remove a comment.
If need be, there are also bans: 3 days for lighter offenses, 14 days for bigger offenses, and permanent bans for people who don't show any willingness to participate productively. If we think the ban reason is obvious, we may not specifically write to you.
If you want to protest a removal or ban, feel free to write privately to the mods: @[email protected], @[email protected], or @[email protected].
founded 4 months ago
MODERATORS
I am cool with ukraine having nukes and participating in the western world order. Same with Finland, for example.
The ugly reality here is that there is a struggle to establish the coming world order. You get the West or you get China and the blyats. Choose.
Tri- or Quad-polar order I think.
We're going to see China / EU / US / Latin America
Russia wants to be their own part of that, but now they are under China. They clearly aren't strong enough to stand on their own if little Ukraine is fighting them to a stand still.
The "coming world order" will be much more complicated.
We are going towards a multipolar world. India is in the mix. South America gets in the mix as the US declines. The Middle East could get in the mix if it wasn't consistently destabilized by the West and Russia.
The EU countries need to free themselves from aligning alongside the US or Russia, establishing the EU as a unified power bloc. Especially as "the West" is very much for sale with Trump and the other US Republicans, but also the US Democrats using Europe as an extension of US interests is weakening it.
It is in the EUs best interest to reestablish Ukraines territorial integrity. As the US lets itself get dragged into another great war in West Asia through Israel, US support for Ukraine will be getting less and pushing for a ceasefire on the basis of handing territory to Russia becomes more likely. Also the US setting West Asia ablaze with Israel will result in a new number of refugees that will dwarf the Syrian civil war and other crisis of the 2010 years.
The West is falling apart as the US declines. But China and Russia also aren't the best buddies and they no longer share the same ideology. Both countries are riddled with internal problems, most notably a huge demographic bomb. Same for the EU, not so much the US yet.
Best thing EU can do is grow together, establish not only a single market, but an united European army and foreign policy. The EU should also develop a mechanism that existing nuclear weapons in the EU, which now only is France, but maybe again UK at some point, become part of a joint European nuclear deterrence.
This is indeed complex, but your comment is full of conjecture, and you seem not to realize that the UK possesses nuclear SLBMs.
But the UK aren't part of the EU.
Fair enough, but i doubt seriously that a war in Europe doesn’t involve the UK.
The comment is not about war really, it is about power factions (hopefully) equalizing each other. The UK has, for the time being, chosen to stop aligning with the EU bloc, so they can fend for themselves.