this post was submitted on 05 Sep 2023
695 points (94.3% liked)
Memes
45728 readers
1103 users here now
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Best point I've read made here.
I'm also probably kind if a jackass, because hex bear doesn't bother me. Would I appreciate a civil conversation to better understand their POV? Totally. Will that happen? No. So I just don't interact. The fierce protection of LGBTQ communities is something I appreciate however.
As a bi guy who has spent decades fighting for my rights Im not sure that their "defense" is beneficial. If you are a fucking piece of shit to everyone you interact with you might be surprised that people don't want your help.
It's not really genuine though. They lightly elevate trump above all other presidents despite his history of attacking LGBTQ rights: https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2020/09/trumps-record-lgbtq-rights-vile-moment-took-office-kept-list/
It's just a political angle to get support from people who feel isolated away from other political movements.
Lol what, who on hexbear is elevating trump, this is a hilarious take.
Also just gonna leave this here https://observer.com/2016/10/wikileaks-reveals-dnc-elevated-trump-to-help-clinton/
Basically the whole Hexbear most upvoted consensus was that all US presidents deserve to be executed, the DNC and GOP are the same, but Trump at least is funny, kind of authentic, and triggers the libs.
Also lol that observer article aged like fucking milk. Clinton couldn't have found a better way to self-destruct her chances at winning the election.
If you want more: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/yikes-new-behind-the-scenes-book-brutalizes-the-clinton-campaign-123303/
Can you show me where this post was on Hexbear?
Also yeah the Clinton campaign fucked itself in many ways, trump just being one that we all get to deal with on a daily basis still
This is the one: https://alexandrite.app/lemm.ee/post/5802627
The real consensus seems to be that he should be hanged just like all the other presidents, and that they find him funny because he is not as subtle as past presidents at doing the evil stuff.
The point I have seen being driven through is that they don't care to just mock people for their ideas and they really love to criticise without offering solutions besides violence and letting it all burn, which is a non-answer to most non-tankies, so there's an impasse.
I just find it very funny that on one hand people say they offer no solutions but on the other hand people say they want to discuss it too much and it's exhausting, they clearly have solutions which is Marxist-Leninism, that has been made abundantly clear over and over so how can one say they offer no solutions?
Marxist-Lenisnism is not really an answer since its not like you can change such a core design of a society overnight, and since they want it fast, their arguments tend to resolve into violence / letting it all burn (which tbh will also come with violence), and again for several people that's a non answer since they don't want violence, so there's an impasse.
For me that answer is like cool it won't happen while I'm alive so what's the point, either you tell me about something practical that people living in the situation can relate and/or act on (without violence), or I'll just answer with something like "cool, that's nice" and not contribute more since suddenly we are talking about something that's so radically overboard from the current society that it's pointless for me, and the vibe I get is that I'm not alone.
Sure it's not an answer for you but that doesn't mean it's right for you to incorrectly state they have no solutions.
I do find the Accelerationism that some on the far left push/advocate for to be a poor idea overall, I do think we need to slowly push people further left via things like social democracy and improving the lives of working class people via more social programs of that nature to be a better alternative, even though it will definitely take more time.
The problem is capitalism and the powers that be are constantly fighting against ANY progress on that front and are doing a damn good job of convincing people to fight against their own interests via various forms of propaganda.
On the other hand we're having a revival of unions like I've never seen in our country before, so it's not like there is no hope that things can improve, just the overall situation we find ourselves in makes it really easy for people to fall into more extreme views and apathy or anger about the system we're currently living in. I think a Marxist/leninists/left viewpoint is miles above the fascist/nationalistic alternative
I want to reiterate what I wrote. I said that they propose no solution besides X, that doesn't mean that they have no answer, but that their only answer is X. What I said is that their only answer is X and people find that answer problematic.
For context, I don't live in the US and I vote for the left parties of my country, which work for social programs within the status quo, not for breaking the status quo. I get that what the US has is way more extreme, but this is a global forum and there's people from countries where is not so bad. When the conversation is almost binary (you are the west or not, no middle point) and their context is not applicable to all, you get this kind of antagonism. And I get that everyone is not that way, I have had several positive and negative encounters with them, but people remember negative experiences more easily that positive ones.
That's all, have a nice day
Someone else found it for me: https://hexbear.net/post/451217
So them saying he's comical (which he is)but should still be executed for his crimes is a bad thing?
Executed for the crime of being a US president, nothing to do with his policies of attacking minority groups.
Lol do you really think that's what they think? They're not as shallow as you seem to think.
I'm going off what gets posted and upvoted and interacted with.
It is possible there's a comment buried in there that covers Trump's record of policies and rhetoric regarding minorities, and I missed it.
So you think it's as simple as, "well they hate presidents so they want them all to die and who cares about minorities!"
Not "who care about minorities" but "we exploit minorities for political advantage".
IE label everyone who disagrees with you as a transphobes, place all transpobes in front of a firing squad
Also actual transphobes (such as most of Russia) gets a free pass.
It's not about fighting transphobes, it's about fighting people who aren't authoritarian communists.
we think its funny that libs are mad at realizing the system is shit, so obviously we are the only ideology in existence besides democrat= a republican
Here FaeDrifter is again saying this shit.
A HUGE PORTION OF HEXBEAR IS TRANS. OVER HALF THE MODS ARE TRANS. THIS HAS BEEN THE CASE FOR THREE YEARS PRIOR TO FEDERATION. FAE, PEOPLE HAVE POINTED THIS OUT TO YOU BEFORE. PROBABLY MULTIPLE TIMES NOW.
See @[email protected] in this very thread:
https://lemmy.ml/comment/3504748
Identiy politics is so silly. It's possible for a black person to support systemic racism, it's possible for a Jewish person to support Nazi's, it's possible for LGBTQ people to support anti-LGBTQ politicians. Case in point - Jessica Watkins.
"I am x-identity" is lazy, superficial, irrelevant.
I don't think anyone is lying about their identity. I do fully expect that the trans men and women of Hexbear would throw their LGBTQ brothers and sisters in front of a firing squad if it meant a chance at a bloody revolution over the bourgeois.
But THEY DON'T SUPPORT THOSE THINGS! YOU'RE MAKING SHIT UP. THIS IS EASY TO SEE IF YOU GO LOOK AT WHAT THEY ACTUALLY SAY ABOUT FASCISTS AND TRANSPHOBES. YOU HAVE BEEN AT THIS FOR AT LEAST A FUCKING WEEK NOW.
You have support for Trump and Russia in there, which is an unholy alliance stripping LGBTQ protections in law, funding transphobic and Neo-Naxi groups, and spreading fascist rhetoric online.
"support for Russia" — opposition to NATO is not support for Russia. This isn't a fucking football game.
"support for Trump" — The other day I sent you a huge thread where they all fucking hate Trump and agree he is an odious fascist.
Hexbear does not support Trump. The consensus view on hexbear is that Trump is more dangerous domestically, but Biden is more dangerous internationally, and they are both monstrous people who are terrible for the planet. Many hexbears voted for biden as harm reduction but it barely felt like harm reduction, and when you look at the whole planet, maybe it wasn't. Trump is a fascist but also an isolationist. Biden is not a fascist, although he does virtually nothing to combat the fascists, but he is also more likely to start wars, coups, or inflict austerity on the global south, which is something people should care about. 9 million people starve to death every fucking year and America has huge international influence to make that worse or better. America supported the fucking siege in Yemen. America destroyed Libya — and that was the fucking Obama administration. I saw a study that tallied it all up and concluded that America has caused the deaths of 4.5 million people in the middle east since 9/11. And for that matter, Biden's not great domestically either! There's been virtually no pushback from the Biden administration against any of the fascist bullshit happening in this country. Florida legalized kidnapping children for forced conversion therapy and Biden won't even say the word trans.
Lol, not really. We can dig it up and look at the highest rated posts again. Hexbear wants to execute him along with the rest of the US presidents, which is obviously just a fantasy. "All presidents are bad, both sides are the same, Trump is at least funny and kind of authentic and triggers the libs" was the overwhelming sentiment.
Lol, no, he's not an isolationist. He's a globalist business man, and a wanna-be dictator imperialist, who is happy to be friends and allies with the other dictator imperialists of the world.
What? According to who? Are you just going to pretend the assassination of Qasem Soleimani didn't happen under Trump?
Biden is very pro-Ukraine, which drives the pro-Russia people insane. I don't know what else you could be talking about.
Trump rolled back LGBTQ rights and stacked SCOTUS with people to roll back women's and LGBTQ rights, DeSantis leads the war on Trans people. It does NOT help LGBTQ causes to blame this on Biden. It does not help to say "well both sides are bad". Fascists LOVE the "enlightened centrists" because it almost always benefits fascism.
Please explain how wanting to see trump hung drawn and quartered for being a disgusting imperialist fascist is a pro Trump statement. Frankly if hexbear users could bring him back to live afterwards we'd happily want to see him brought back then hung, drawn and quartered a second time.
If you don't want to see Trump hung, drawn and quartered you are more pro trump than hexbear is.
But also, "Identiy politics is so silly" is a massive fucking red flag, scratch a liberal and they start complaining about the woke mob
Edit:
lmao, this you?
I care about real life policy and results.
I don't think living in a fantasy of fetish violence makes you left or a left ally.
Let me frame it in a way helpful to your confirmation bias. Zelenskyy is Jewish, does this automatically mean in the Russia invasion of Ukraine that Russians are the Nazis and Ukrainians aren't? Identity politics.
100% yes, and I have learned that thinking neopronouns are unnecessary and silly makes me a transphobe, and transphobes deserve the firing squad.
I have not heard exactly how many and which neopronouns I have to learn before I've hexbeared hard enough to not get the firing squad.
There's a big difference between wanting trump to die and thinking that trump will actually be executed or suffer any real consequences for his crimes beyond a slap on the wrist and maybe some house arrest - of course Trump won't face justice, like Bush, like Clinton, like Obama and like Biden he will only ever fall upwards and live comfortably for the rest of his life. Wanting awful people to face justice isn't "living in fantasy land" it's just being dissaffected with the reality that evil people will never face any kind of justice - I also want my country to be actually accepting of trans people and for the NHS to work as it should and for the police to not be institutionally racist, but I know it's not going to happen.
And regarding the identity politics thing, I agree regarding liberal identity politics when Im talking with a materialist communist who's criticising it from a left wing perspective but you're not a communist, you're a """liberal""" criticising it from a right wing perspective because you're mad that trans people are daring to criticise Biden and to call you a transphobe for being transphobic.
If your "allyship" that is entirely conditional on trans people being respectable and heteronormative enough for you to accept entirely consists of talking down to those trans people you do accept and telling them that they're not allowed to criticise Biden too much or your fragile "allyship" will be retracted then it isn't worth shit.
::: spoiler relevant MLK quote
I have to admit I think it's weird that afab men and amab women or any nonbinary thems are now considered heteronormative.
Set the firing squad on me because I say that's stupid.
Yeah, lets, instead of you cherry picking shit and distorting the intent behind it. Here's the fucking thread. Holy shit, the consensus view is fucking exactly what I said it is.
As for thinking Trump is funny, the overwhelming view in Hexbear is extremely bleak. People struggle with depression and doomerism. They laugh to cope.
Here are hexbears talking about why they laugh at Trump
https://hexbear.net/comment/3843298
https://hexbear.net/comment/3841843
https://hexbear.net/comment/3839607
https://hexbear.net/comment/3842243
https://hexbear.net/comment/3840197
Yeah that's exactly how I remember it. "All US presidents bad, at least Trump is funny".
Maybe this is a real intention that I'm misinterpreting. It looks a lot like edgy Heath Ledger joker "just wants to watch the world burn", fine if the fascists are the ones to do it. I'm willing to consider it's just misplaced doomerism.
if you think anyone on hexbear wants to watch the fucking world burn, you clearly have no fucking idea what any of these people think or believe or care about. I'm honestly struggling to even respond to this. It just shows complete ignorance, and then that you would go on and on for days slandering this community you know nothing about, with complete confidence, even after people contradict you and argue with you... I mean what the fuck do I say to someone who thinks a community whose entire set of political beliefs orients toward defending the poor and the marginalized from the monstrous psychopaths who rule this planet — wants to watch the fucking world burn? Please stop saying shit about hexbear when you do not know anything about these people.
I'll take the L that I only have a week of exposure to Hexbear, and it might be the worst week, given that Hexbears were all excited to "dunk on the shitlibs" and actually doing real life helpful productive things for marginalized and oppressed groups took a back seat on the burner.
In my not-very-important opinion from my short exposure, y'all have completely lost the plot. You would say edgy shock factor things for an internet point circle jerk , even if you're giving ammo to the right. I think you all would rather LARP being leftist revolutionaries, fantasize about executions, you like driving people away from leftism because it reinforces your identity of being the most left.
If you really wanted to protect the poor and marginalized, I think you all would take the clue and reevaluate if you really value making the world a better place, and what you're doing to achieve that.
if you're saying that being a too-online leftist is not really doing anything, hexbears are self-aware about that and riff on it pretty often. but plenty of hexbears are also involved in orgs, unionization efforts, and volunteer work. and the ones who aren't are self-deprecating about it. this is where the "I will never log off!" riffs come from, they all know they should log off. that said, the community is also sort of a support group for people to share their stress about the world to other people who understand it and share a similar perspective. that's the main purpose of the community, no one sees it as some "change the world by posting" platform. if they did, it wouldn't make sense for them to stay defederated for three years.
Heard. You've successfully made the points for me to not give any more of my opinions on Hexbear to anyone who isn't from Hexbear. I'll stand down and give everyone the fair chance to make their own opinions.
I think having a space to destress is really important. If you're fighting for rights for minorities in your local area and you need to shout "death to America" in a friendly space online, you earned it and you deserve it.
I appreciate that, thanks
Maybe go edit that in to a higher level comment
Fucking BINGO.
These suxbears are just trying to do a psyop. They aren't good at it either. Xi could have trained them much better is all I'm saying.
Aren't you the guy who admitted earlier you were lying about them just to stir shit?
https://lemmy.ml/comment/3381095 (scroll down to the bottom)
Is your shit thoroughly stirred?
My inbox sure is. Keep the brain-drain flowing my way.
Also, Donald Trump is a communist.
I guess the question is, if you don't actually believe the shit you say, what actually motivates you?
Honestly, the pages of well thought out responses are reward enough, but all the sweet time yall waste typing is what really makes it worth my time (all 10 minutes of it).
Getting you folks a taste of what it's like to share a space with you.. well that bit is fucking priceless.
Honorary Trump is a communist for your question.
People have actually had that conversation. You just have to seem curious and not too accusatory. Also — depending on how skeptical you come across — it might help to keep your questions specific so they don't feel like they have to defend their entire perspective in one fell swoop, although some might be up for that.
They're aware that their perspective tends to be vilified and poorly understood, which both makes them wary of people but also enthusiastic to respond when they find someone they think is actually interested in what they have to say. If I showed them your comment they'd probably be like "hell yeah, send him in."
*I made a thread and I was going to link it to you if you wanted to ask questions, but I realized you're defederated
I was called a bigot because I dared to say that a person finished transitioning is no longer trans.
Because they're done. They're a man or woman now, and apparently treating them as such means I'm a bigot.
This isn't defense, this behavior actively makes things worse for trans people. This is the exact type of behavior conservatives want you to think of when they say "trans people bad".
This is why, this statement means that you don't view trans people who haven't "finished transitioning" as their actual gender. This is a transphobic and pretty reductive understanding of how transition works (albeit one that some trans people hold themselves, usually transmeds). I won't write an entire essay on why but here's just a small bit to chew on: consider that a "finished transition" is very different from person to person and some people might never consider it finished. Some people only want to socially transition, others have to medicate for their entire lives, both could consider reaching their ideal state "finished" or they could consider it a continual work in progress.
Also,
The idea that pointing out someone's transphobia will somehow support the transphobes is laughable. If being called out is seriously enough to make someone stop supporting trans people then their support was conditional and only surface-level.
Staying civil, as you suggest, is what actually helps conservatives since it allows their views to go unchallenged when their views are bad and should be challenged. Part of this includes challenging people who may think they are supportive but harbour transphobic beliefs that they haven't analysed fully. And these wrong beliefs can have actual harm. As a simple example, there are a lot of "allies" who say that trans people are their gender but not their sex, which is a belief that can harm trans people when brought into a medical context where our bodies are (if on HRT) closer to those of our actual gender than to our AGAB.
Sex is a scientific and medical concept how is transphobic to say someone male at birth with XY chromosomal pairs was born male?
If you are not trans shut the fuck up right now about what is or isn't good for trans people, trans people do not need a cis saviour to come in and tell us we're being too unpalatable for liberals who will only support us as long as we don't get too uppity
There it is, rabid dog behavior.
You give the conservatives everything they need hexadyte.
thats bigoted you fucking godless removed
I would love to put the entire imperial core in a giant fucking prison and re-educate all of you into communists. Its my favorite fantasy.