this post was submitted on 24 Aug 2023
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Imagine instead of complete surrender the confederacy retreated and held Texas, and China was selling them advanced weaponry. That’s what this is
Nobody in SEA likes Taiwan. It doesn't help that Taiwan has two naval bases in the South China Sea and always sides with the PRC against the rest of SEA over the SCS, mostly using the justification of "acktually the SCS is part of Chinese naval waters and we're officially called the Republic of China, so this is Taiwanese naval waters btw since we're officially called the Republic of China."
By design
Man, these days you know a hexbear without even looking at the user.
I mean this is complete baloney! You are also using the comparison to establish some kind of “evil slavers vs democracy” narrative that wasn’t in place at all in China during the warlord era. They were all equally horrid.
This is, at best, akin to a war between all states in the US after the Boston Tea Party and a communist state, let’s just pick Arizona, slowly winning the wars and forcing the remaining faction onto Hawaii. Then the socialist party forced anyone who could read, more or less, to work themselves to death in a field in the name of communism. Glory to the people!!!
I agree. People should take how the Chinese government and the US government treat their people into consideration.
So are we gonna talk about how USA has the highest incarceration rate in the world? Are we going to talk about income equality in USA vs China? Are we going to talk about the Concentration camps for refugee children on the USA border? (If you are going to bring up Xinjiang I'm going to need some photographic evidence beyond vibes and zenz doing bad statistical analysis)
What does incarceration rate have to do with how good the country is? Do you really believe that the income is more equal in China? If you are going to talk about the "concentration camps" on the USA border I'm going to need photo evidence too. Here is a photo of the camp in Xinjiang:
::: spoiler
:::
No, this photo is not fake.
not "how good it is" "How it treats its people" America locks up its people way more (531/100k) than other China (119/100k). Is imprisoning people treating them well?
Kids in cages. There's some photo's there and I think you'll probably respect WaPo as a source.
You can try again but I'm gonna guess that it is just a picture of a building or some prisoners with no context on how many people are there or why they are there.
I apologize for saying "how good it is." I was in a rush and couldn't think of a better phrase.
I just read through the article from the Washington Post you linked. That really is bad and I believe that the Trump government should not have treated the (although illegal) immigrants. The grim appearance of that facility really isn't something that the immigrants should have faced when they set foot on the US. However, compare that to the situation in Xinjiang. Here is an opinion post from the Washington Post. What China is doing to its Uyghurs is genocide. Not that it justifies anything that the US have done to its immigrants, but in comparison what the US is doing seem pretty mild.
that's not news that is an opinion piece that references Zenz who is a liar and Nazi sympathiser.
The UN has done a fact finding Mission and they said there is no evidence of a Uyghur Genocide. It didn't happen.
Yes there are Vocational schools in Xinjiang but that is to teach people trades to lift themselves out of poverty. The only "culture" being erased is religious extremist terrorism that snuck in through Afghanistan when USA pushed the Taliban out of Afghanistan. Yes there was a rapid increase in birth control measures in Xinjiang but that is what happens when women are given education, economic self determination, and access to proper medical care. They get a IUD so they can focus on living their lives the way they want to instead of being slaves to men who use them as domestic servants and baby incubators.
Zenz based his entire "genocide" theory off statistics and bad math because he is involved in the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation. It is an organization built to spread hate against communism. They hate Communism because the USSR killed 7/10 nazis that died in WW2. The large majority of "Victims of Communism" were Nazis and the people memorializing them are nazis too.
No offence but your lack of media literacy is showing..
You understand that using WaPo as a source for American wrong doings is not the same as using WaPo as a source for wrong doings it's geopolitical rival. You'd need a Chinese outlet admitting to their faults for it to be equivalent..
Nonetheless I clicked on your link:
Literally the second paragraph...
I hope I don't sound rude but it really sounds like you only consider WaPo trustworthy when it's convenient for you. Besides, the media in China are heavily controlled by the government. I don't think a news outlet would survive if they dared to report such things.
Sorry, I don't understand how that makes this any less trustworthy?
That's not quite what they're saying. They're saying WaPo is also subject to censorship and coercion, so their word holds more weight when it's a topic where they might be penalised for publishing. If you don't think there are any Chinese sources that can publish things critical of China, then you can still follow carl_marks_1312's methodology in part by finding articles from sources with a free press but geopolitically aligned with China.
To us, Adrian Zenz automatically means you can dismiss the evidence. The person you're talking to went in with that assumption, and then was lambasting you for not noticing such an obvious and glaring problem with the article. So that's where the disconnect comes from. Of course without that assumption the comment doesn't make sense.
Zenz is a garbage person, but more importantly he's not reliable. He's verifiably been caught lying several times. The tweet you commented on is out of context. I don't know what the context is, it probably doesn't change what's being said, but without reading the context I can't know if it's a justifiable thing to say. Perhaps it was. Perhaps he was explaining Nazi mentality without trying to justify it. It doesn't matter. Zenz is a bad source because he's a liar primarily. He uses bad science and statistics, he makes wild inferences, he pretends not to notice mistakes that he must've noticed, etc. He only ever cites circular sources. That is to say media reports of his own publishings.
jesus christ read at least one book about the history of the conflict you're describing before you confidently spout nonsense.
I agree my characterisation is far off the mark. But the poster I responded to wasn’t even in the same galaxy, so I still considered it an improvement.
Also, I’m not Jesus Christ 🤪
Do they make redditors in a factory or something
No, they make Patrick.
Youve gotta be shitting me
So you acknowledge the fact that you don't know shit about the topic you're spouting off on but you still just assume you know better??
They did not say that they don't know shit about the topic, not even close. They simply said their characterization is far off the marks. That means that their understanding of the conflict is far from perfect, but they absolutely do know shit about it.
They didn't say they were wrong
They just said they were far off the mark
That means their understanding is far from perfect
They absolutely do know their shit
far from perfect can still be good.
Can it be time for you to shut up yet?
To think that you saw me make fun of you for the game of telephone you played with yourself and decided to take the final translation and defend yourself with it. Way to miss the fucking point. "Far from the mark" was already cope by someone who was simply fucking wrong about what they said.
I am not going to shut up. I am not going to shut up at anyone's request. I also believe that their comment had a certain degree of truth to it.
Baby brain. "What they said may have been completely false but I still feel like it's true"
Shutting the fuck up at this point isn't a request; it's advice.
Ok then, advice rejected.
Shocking
This is like if the Confederacy retreated to Catalina Island, massacred everyone there, and continued calling itself the rightful government of the entire continent afterward.
This is not like that. The ROC government did not "massacre everyone there." It did call itself the rightful government of the entire China for several decades, but it has since then moved on.
It's constitution has not even been amended to not include Mongolia, let alone mainland China.
And the KMT did do a number on the indigenous Formosan population.
To say nothing of the 40 years White Terror
Is that a bad thing? In your hypothetical situation, Chinese people should be happy about their government selling weaponry to Texas, and the Americans should not support their sale of weaponry. To compare this to the real world scenario, Chinese people should feel angry about this and Americans should feel good. I don't really get the point you're trying to convey with your analogy.
Not everyone is a chauvinistic shithead
Well, not quite. It's more akin to if the union was pushed back and was limited to new-england.
The PRC is the confederate equivalent, as they weren't the original legal government unlike Taiwan, which legally is the heir of the ROC.
Also one of these states is an authoritarian piece of shit, and it's definitely not Taiwan.
Going by paper legality argument, ROC is also illegal because it wrested power from Qing. Which conquered China from Ming, which toppled Yuan, and going fast forward to Han, Qing, Zhao and Shang, neither of them also risen peacefully.
Ahhh, Chinese history. Breaking every 400-500 years into total chaos, and someone new fixes it so the cycle repeated.
Does it looks like that to you? I would say they have unparallelled cultural and civilisational continuity rarily seen in any other place. And feudal empires falling is not the gotcha you think it is, especially when you look at the absolute clusterfuck in Europe (or many other places too).
Also nice deflection.
You made your point dating to the shang, and I dont disagree. Even more, you're right, feudal empires falling isn't a gotcha.
So what about a modern state being violently overthrown? Or is this different because one violent, illegiment warlord championed "the people", and proceeded to starve 200* million of them after taking power?
Which one of these two states still maintains democratic or republican ideals for the people, a reminder that real Legitimacy lay with the people.
Sorry. Just a measley 50 million people mb. Still the worst famine in history. And 100% preventable.
Well, as i read about the history of China, previous entity of Xia apparently didn't conquered anyone and even if they did, we don't know, written history of China start from the late Shang period.
About the rest Tankiedesantski answered you about the "republican ideas" of ROC, i can only add that even if you deflect yet again to "real Legitimacy lay with the people" there is nothing more really legitimate by the people than popular revolution which led to the state being supported by 90% of population.