this post was submitted on 23 Sep 2024
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The more I think about how we label race, the more I realize how arbitrary it all is. IIRC we used to consider Irish people as non-white at one point. That's fucking bonkers
Also race isn't something science thinks is a thing, really
True dat. If it were, we'd likely have latin names for different races like "Homo sapiens sapiens caucasus" or some stupid shit, lmao. Nope, humans just have different colors and features naturally, and that's pretty neat.
I'd probaby classify it more as human variants or sub-varients. Intially and historical origins of ancestors, blacks would've lived closer toward the equater of the earth where temperatures were warmer and more tropical and white folk lived in a bit cooler less tropical climates in the north. Our climates started off very different and we adapt to changing enviroments. I notice that american blacks are very different from african blacks. I think many american blacks are mixed or may have some italian in their genes. It's interesting the many variants in people that barely have any classification if any. It can get quite complex and confusing, so many people just lump them in with others. This holds true for people of kinds too. Trying to fit in another form of classification can also be tricky, but not just because complex variants, but also people might get too easily offended. Had some neat ideas of classification, but some people might not see in the same light and might think it meant to offend.
And all that is garbage that belongs with the race-scientist of the early 20th century.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/mar/02/the-unwelcome-revival-of-race-science
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/race-is-a-social-construct-scientists-argue/
Not sure how viable these sites are as sources, but also i don't know enough about genetics to determine full extent of changes over long stretches of time. All i know is trying to apply a logical sense of possibilities. In my speculation, just though it to makes sense for climates that are more hot and sunny for people to adabt with darker skin. Even if different races have all the same genetics, might not mean the genetics are not used in different ways. Clearly there is something there that instructs people to have different skin colors and other minor changes. It's not a bad thing to ask what causes these physical differences and why they occur. What you thoughts on what causes the variations of physcal differences if not genetics?
Why are you bothering to write all that shit when you can't be bothered to take the few minutes to read those links? Which are from actual scientists, and not someone having racist brainfarts.
Bold to assume i hadn't read it, also i wanna hear your thoughts. This a disccussion, not a debate. Im not used to this reddit style sites, im usually on messeagers with talking to people from logical perspectives, not people who just toss source links from jurnalist sites that tell you random scientist claims it true. You can throw as many journalist sources, scientist claims, bars, graphs as you like, i'd still like to hear your own individual thoughts that arent just random sources to claims. I wanna know you formed your own sense of reasoning or are just repeating what your told.
It's really not "bold" to assume you haven't read it when you just wrote a whole lot of asinine shit you think sounded proper and smart, when you didn't even understand the part I quoted from them:
See you plain do not understand what that means. It's clear as day from your comment.
Dude you're literally saying that science doesn't matter, while insisting that you must be right and that you're "using logic" and that all the actual facts and science on the matter is "some random sources". It's not "some random sources". It's everyone. That the scientific consensus on the subject. If you claim it isn't, then you get some fucking science to show instead of your weird gibberish.
It's beyond obvious you haven't read either of the links. DO SO.
I have read, perhaps you should had asked if i understood it. I did mention i didn't understand enough about genetics. You seem to be having an arguement, where as im having a discussion. Science is important, yes. But blindly trusting words of an article. All scientific consensus says is basically "this is the popular vote of agreement, so it must be true" im not saying its wrong, im saying should blindly trust a general consensus as fact. The obvious thing is you being haneous about having your perspective challenged. Could we discuss this like gentlemen rather than you throwing a hissy fit. There was really no reason get all spiteful and uncivil. This isnt even about the intial discussion any more, but you just getting irrationally angry when i asked for an opinion of your own.
"Blindly trusting the words of an article"
No. Again, it's the SCIENTIFIC CONSENSUS.
"All scientific consensus means is the agreement of the global scientific community, that's not something you can trust, EVER, so you should listen to me, a random person online, rambling. It's for sure gonna be more accurate, despite me having actually admitted that I don't even understand genetics."
Are you smoking crack or something?
You clearly haven't read them. Honestly, it's incredible that you've spent all this time here, when you could've just read them and understood why race isn't a thing. You don't understand the argument they're making. You don't understand that no such thing as a biological race exists according to the BEST understanding we have. Do you think your half-assed ideas are better than the research of THE ENTIRE GLOBAL COMMUNITY THROUGHOUT HISTORY?
I'm not angry. I'm trying to emphasise the thing you've clearly missed. You don't understand that we aren't on an equal footing in this. You admit yourself you don't understand genetics, yet think you can have a "discussion" about pushing your ideas which rely on not understanding genetics. If you did understand genetics, you wouldn't hold those idiotic ideas in the first place, which is WHY YOU SHOULD READ THE STUDIES.
gee, buddy, i wonder why.
look i won’t even begin to sit here and try to break down the problems with your rhetoric & diction for you, but whatever tf it is in your head that regards race; it got sum mad fucked up with it. like wtf does half of this racist drivel mean?? subvariants?? excuse me is it 1902??? i’d wager a bet your “neat ideas” for human classification are some of the most bigoted and awful things to come out of someone’s mouth, and you’d say them with complete unremorse and not a single wince of irony.
I come in more hoping for a disccusion, not a battle. Might i ask you to refrain from being rash or hostile. No reason this needs to get uncivil. Same for dasus. Having a mind set to win arguements is unneccessary here. Please talk to me, not at me.
frankly, and people can call me an asshole for this but i truly do mean it as kindly as possible, talking to you doesn’t seem worth my time. someone who knows you in your life and cares is in a much better position to explain why what you’re saying is not just simple, but morally maladjusted.
yeah i was rude to you. you were espousing ideas that are racist in nature. no i don’t have a responsibility to explain before i respond negatively in turn. i really do hope you take this and your admitted previous bad receptions as an indication you should study what race actually is, and get a clearer idea of what “human classifications [sic]” really are. what you are saying is wrong and hurtful. it makes people’s lives worse when you say things like this and you don’t really care
I feel as things i wrote got misinterpretated tbh. My ideas were not something racist, my ideas are to help identify variations in human. When i speak of human variants i refer to different variations of humans. I'm not even specifically referring to race itself when i mean variation, but rather the more minor things. And my mind isn't set in stone. People really ought to not actively look for excuses to be offended, and try to understand that some such as myself just want to understand such subjects better. I don't see these things in context of feels, so if you thought me referring to human variants in manor that is meant to dehumanize or something of the sort, just know i'd refer myself in the same way. People are so quick to apply emotions over logic and actively look for excuses to get offended rather than have a reasonable discussion. Im open minded person, so please just have a chat with me. I like open minded discussions and im subject to change my perspectives. Instead of telling me how offended you easily get, why not instead kindly share some insight on different angles and perspective. Not everything on the internet has to be made out to be an arguement. Please understand im not out to force perspectives. So many people on the internet have this fixed mindset they gotta win arguments, have narrative battles, pull off many arguement strategies and tactics, quote everything, insult each other intellual propeties, etc. Its exhausting everyone treating each other as obstacles to overcome by heated debates. Just have regular conversation, instead of focusing on winning peer approval on how right you are as it seems most people of these kinds of sites tend have as their focus.
Social sciences do though.
Well, in the sense that ofc "social sciences" would include history for one, and historically, it was recognised as a notion. And in the sense that that notion is a social construct, is something that modern social sciences would study, obviously.
I think you know — but now I'm saying in case you didn't — that I meant that the notion that there is a biological race of any sort isn't a notion modern science would agree with.
They're not white they're ghostly, ain't no sun there
👻
"White" isn't a race nor is it a culture. That's why the definition keeps changing over time. In Western society, white people are still the predominant and dominant demographic, which is why it's still important to discuss issues of race and culture with members of those races and culture. "Not seeing race" isn't a virtue, it's sticking your head in the sand and pretending you're enlightened.