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If Biden 'Must Step Aside,' Why Aren't Democrats Filling the Streets to Demand It?
(www.commondreams.org)
this post was submitted on 10 Jul 2024
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politics
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Because there aren't any other viable candidates.
I agree with you, and that's how you know it's just disinformation and dishonesty. Nobody ever has a serious name to replace Biden. You press them for the replacement candidate, and you'll get a ridiculous answer because they don't actually have a plan. They just want to knock Biden down.
Harris is already on the ticket. If she's the reason to vote, good news! Biden can step aside after he beats Trump and hand Harris the big chair. She can then run in 4 years as an incumbent (assuming she does a good job.) If she's not the dream candidate, then why aren't we talking about replacing her on the ticket? You want Whitmer or Newsom or Buttigieg, then put them on as the VP and let them run behind Biden.
You don't get away from Biden's baggage by having him step aaide. His record, his endorsements, his policies, those all come with the package. The only thing you shed is his age. If that's the only reason you're concerned about Biden, then it's not a serious concern.
how is Biden the only person that can beat Trump? What left-leaning person would go "hmm, it's not Biden so I guess I'm voting Trump"?
It's not that Biden is the only person who can beat Trump. Biden is the only person RUNNING who can beat Trump. There are plenty of people who could beat Trump, but until one of them says they want the job this entire thing is a nonstarter.
the DNC kinda prevents legitimate alternatives from succeeding though. It doesn't have to be this way but the party keeps it like this, maintaining the incumbent as the only choice.
People want more options and they would be available if it was remotely possible to overcome the DNC's favoritism to Biden.
I 1000% agree with you. The DNC shouldn't be operating as an arm of the incumbent, that's precisely why we're in this position now. I just don't know how that changes when the DNC is staffed with people chosen by the incumbent, especially before November.
The level of political analysis in this thread is like armchair traffic engineers talking about how we could eliminate traffic by just opening up another lane.
Winning an election in our current system means running a 50 state strategy and getting more votes than your opponent. Almost everyone who votes is uninformed on most issues, and will vote for the person they like most. Some vote against the person they hate most. A full third of eligible voters did not vote in the last presidential election, and that was the highest voter turnout in 120 years.
To get someone to vote for you, you need three things in this order:
That's it. All of the ads and speeches and interviews and debates are trying to accomplish those three objectives. That's why primaries are important, because it gives the candidates time to differentiate themselves and build a following of donors and volunteers.
An incumbent has a ridiculous advantage in that they have 1 and 2 completed. Everyone voting knows that Biden is the President, and they have seen him doing the job. Trump has also been President and done the job. So it just comes down to which of these two old, white shitbags can motivate enough voters to show up.
If the incumbent drops out, you are starting over at zero. The candidate must introduce themselves to the voters, and then convince them that they have the experience and gravitas to handle the job. The American voters are woefully inept at judging whether a person has the experience or gravitas, but we all believe we are good at it.
A lot of people are motivated to vote because they love Trump. A lot of people are motivated because they hate Trump. Biden might have a handful of supporters that are motivated by Biden, and there might be a few morons who hate Biden enough to vote for Trump. The real hurdle Biden needs to clear is getting people who are unenthusiastic about either candidate to show up.
So the question becomes, is there another candidate who is so energizing and charismatic that they can introduce themselves, demonstrate competence, and motivate the unenthused without alienating the already luke-warm supporters?
What does Harris get you? She's not going to change course on Israel. Youth? She's fairly unpopular among young voters. Women? Anyone who cares about women's rights is already voting against Trump. Minorities? See: Women. Plus, anyone who loves Harris is already going to be motivated to vote for Biden, because he's not likely to go the full four years.
If you don't like Harris, then who? All of the big names in the party have backed Biden and have said they aren't running. Are we going to nominate that Joe Shmoe primary challenger that couldn't even get on the ballot in half the states? He's been running for a year and I can't remember his name or tell you what his policies are.
All of these hypothetical scenarios about how the ticket would be better if the DNC wasn't corrupt, that's just bullshit. Our election system sucks, but we're not going to fix it by complaining about the team uniforms. You want to make it better? Run for office. Write your representatives. Donate and/or volunteer for a campaign. Vote out conservatives at every level of government. Talk politics with your friends and neighbors. These things will all help. Whinging about the DNC on Lemmy will not.
Yeah I was just agreeing with a specific point about how we intentionally give the incumbent even more of an advantage during the primaries. Nothing you said is exclusive to my comment. I know/agree with pretty much everything you said already. Sorry you had to write all that.
All great points. How about we both spread this message and you forgive me for posting my admittedly unproductive comment?
Thank you for posting some sense in this conversation. It baffles me why some posters around here are so willing to throw away the election on a strategy that has failed every time it has been tried.
Isn't it convenient that no candidate who wants to stay in the good graces of the democratic party will announce their candidacy until the incumbent democratic president steps down. What an unbelievably paradoxical argument to make.
Because nobody else was allowed to run, exactly.
I would argue that anyone who meets the qualifications COULD have run, but the chances of beating the incumbency advantage were admittedly pretty low. There are a lot of institutional obstacles in the way, but that's not the same as actively preventing someone from tossing their hat in the ring. That's like saying RFK Jr was prevented from running. He just had no chance winning the Democratic primary (because he's a piece of shit) so he went independent.
The deck is clearly stacked against anyone trying to unseat an incumbent, but that's not new information. That's literally how our system works. I would prefer the DNC be neutral and have a drag out fight in the primary and then support the winner, but that's pretty tough to do when the incumbent is the de facto leader of the party.
Oh, they've moved on to indignation now and pretending they didn't spend the last few weeks disappearing after being asked for a name. But they still very rarely actually give one.
Or they throw out 2 dozen names of people who have said they're not going to run or that they support Biden, and act as if they've given you some uncounterable response and get salty when you point any of that out.
She's not my favorite, but mostly because we haven't seen much of her. If Biden can live two years and she can really get her voice out there, she could potentially see 2028 and 2032.
You haven't seen much of her because she is a terminally uncharismatic former cop who is abusive towards her staff. The best she can do for herself is stay behind the scenes.
I cannot imagine her running a campaign that motivates people to show up at the polls. Now would be her chance to show it though, considering the president himself being incapacitated outside the hours of 10am and 4pm.
I think if she had been a half-decent politician, Biden would have resigned two years ago. That would have given her a shot at establishing herself as the President before this election.
The fact that Biden is still at it means he didn't want Harris to be President.
Exactly. Does anyone think Biden is making it another 4 years? We've voting for president Harris one way or the other
Theres a whole country of people, how hard is it to find one qualified candidate?!
Apparently, rather hard.
I doubt it is the qualification for the actual job that is the issue. Being willing to put one's family through that shit it tough.
Indeed. A wise wizard once said: "It is a curious thing, Harry, but perhaps those who are best suited to power are those who have never sought it."
There's also a very consistent and common shortlist that these people just pretend doesn't exist because the narrative line they're now following demands they pretend it doesn't.
What is this list?
Just fucking Google it man. It's been a repeated news story. If you're not aware of it you're not trying to know it.
OK, so you don't have an answer either, got it.
No, I just think you're being disingenuous so I have no interest in whatever name by name critique you're going to give for a list you already know 80%+ of the names for but are pretending doesn't exist.
I don't think a single person on your theoretical list is electable, if that's what you mean. But I would need you to be specific about who you think might be a viable alternative in order to have any useful discussion about them. I have no need to be disingenuous. You need to actually support your point of view with more than vague suggestions and hand-waving.
This is why people laugh at the Biden replacers. You literally just told someone that the list exists, then told them to Google it.
Just fucking tell them to Do YoUr OwN rEsEaRcH and not hide behind 'the extensive list that totally exists, just Google it man it's everywhere ', that will really show them how extensive and credible the list of candidates really are, and how it's totally not full of people who already said they won't run or support Biden.
This only further reinforces the thought that it's all people who aren't planning on running. You don't want to talk about why your names aren't viable, you just want to talk about how it's so easy to do.
Wonder why.
Look at the 2020 candidates, I'm sure a good number of them would run a campaign if Biden stepped down. The democratic establishment just needs to put their weight behind a candidate that people are willing to vote for like they did with Biden.
Which would be who?
Also, that just is doing a lot of heavy lifting in this sentence, as if it were that simple.
Buttigieg. Whitmer. Beshear. Pritzker. Newsome. Fucking Klobuchar or Warren. Literally anyone else that would announce their candidacy as soon as Biden got out of the way. It's the fucking democratic nomination, somebody out there wants it and given the chance to campaign would be able to beat Trump by miles. Half of them are starting at more or less equal odds with Trump even with NO campaigning whatsoever.
I'm not claiming to be clairvoyant but jesus have some imagination, a sense of object permanence. You're not hearing about them because they aren't challenging the incumbent president, not because they don't exist.
Edit: and yes, given a real primary, it is that simple.
It is not that simple, when we're talking about the national vote. Yes, another candidate could win the primary, but none of them have the kind of national presence to compete with Trump this close to the election. If they had been the candidate 2 years ago, maybe. Switching candidates this late will damage voter confidence, and will result in lower turnout, regardless of who the candidate is.
Imagination has nothing to do with it, this isn't a Disney movie.
That's bullshit. 4 months is an eternity in election year time. Also, like I said, on account of them all clearing the bar of not being Trump, half of them are starting at more or less equal odds with Trump (and Biden) with NO campaigning whatsoever. Aside from that, Biden himself staying in the race is doing everything you're saying about the other candidates, all on his own.
The complication here; for any candidate; is that you have to offer something more than "not trump", campaign on that, and project confidence in defending your ideology and its allies. That is where voter confidence is fostered, not bowing down to some sunk cost fallacy. Biden is unable to perform on this in his current state. That is why his base comes down only to voters who both 1) don't have serious objections against Biden, which are dwindling, and 2) are informed on what trump may be capable of in a second term, of which the effort to increase this demographic is either completely absent or ineffectual.
Right! Nobody's stepped up because Biden hasn't stepped down, I thought that was well established by now??
Why would Biden step down without an effective replacement ready and waiting? Waiting for someone to step down before you step up shows you don't have what it takes to lead, especially during tumultuous times like this.
You're asking for a power vacuum that will lead to trump winning in November.
I'm just saying it's pretty convenient to your point that the DNC has been making it abundantly clear that they would take down anyone who challenges their incumbent.
via Matt Taibbi yesterday on substack,
Trump is winning either way with the way things are going right now, might as well throw out a hail mary
The oligarchy does not want an effective Democratic candidate
So, so many of us are going to vote for whoever the D is, no matter what. And Biden shit the bed, costing him those dumbass undecideds in the few states that will determine our collective future.
Anyone should be able to beat Trump after four years of lies, a felony, a coup attempt and overturning Roe. It's absurd to think Biden is the only one who can.