this post was submitted on 05 May 2024
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A well-written opinion, but I can't agree.
Jedi/Sith are central to Star Wars, everything else is just the support for that story.
Having said that, I have no problem with seeing other parts of the Galaxy and how they interact and react to the Jedi/Sith struggle, etc.
But to focus on that exclusively, no.
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that story got told, over 40 years ago, by the first three star wars films
trying to continue to tell the same story over and over—trying to continue feeding the same meat into the same grinder—is what gave us episodes 7-9, and to a lesser extent 1-3
but there's still plenty of life in the world building and universe those films created
have you watched andor?
I don't disagree that there should be more non-jedi focused stories... but I do have a problem with this:
A story was told. That doesn't mean every story that could involve jedi has been told. Just the same one rehashed multiple times. Different stories, focusing on different aspects of that same mythos without retreading the same ground (again), can still be told. It just requires more risk, which is why it hasn't been tried as much.
It doesn't help that, because of forty years of history, people are attached to these characters and stories. They want to explore more of that. I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing... unfortunately there is a lack of focused direction that has made it difficult to continue it with any kind of stable quality.
"tell more stories about the jedi without retreading the same ground" is the same request as "tell more stories about the star wars universe without retreading the same ground" just with less risk, and in turn with less potential for truly interesting and unique ideas
What you're asking for is not Star Wars, but Traveller.
Which could be great, honestly, but it wouldn't be Star Wars.
I bet it would save Disney a lot in licensing fees to Lucas though, not having to use his characters and pay for them.
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Rogue One at times feels more like Star Wars than the original trilogy, and doesn't have a single Jedi in it.
Your measurement for what counts as "Star Wars" seems pretty arbitrary. 4 would be essentially the same movie even without the presence of any Jedi.
I guess I've just seen more movies than you, because it didn't feel like a Star Wars story, it seemed like a spy movie trying to escape with plans to a weapon. 🤷♂️
I'm pretty sure that the most iconic type of thing in the storytelling for Star Wars, the most recognize and beloved, would be Force wielders.
That the Force, and how it manifests itself in the storytelling, is what makes Star Wars, Star Wars.
And that most would agree with my opinion on the matter. It's been in the news and stories and magazines etc etc etc long enough prove that point.
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I guess you just don't really understand Star Wars as well as you think you do 🤷♂️
it's an aesthetic and a setting
if you define it as a narrative you can't step outside the first three films
You really don't have to keep attacking me you know? We could just discuss the points instead.
So is Traveller TTRPG, or Babylon Five, Warhammer 40K, etc., etc.
But none of them are Star Wars.
I'm not, you keep assuming I am, but I'm not.
I'm talking the unique points of the world building/lore. You can have different narratives in story telling for the same world (or in this case, galaxies).
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buddy i literally just took what you said and changed a few words around. if it feels like attacking you then maybe do some self reflection?
where have i attacked you?
put literally anything from 40k next to literally anything from star wars and it becomes painfully obvious that they're two distinct properties
you're aware 40k essentially also has the force too, right? i'm not sure what point you're trying to make here
what unique points?
jedi are reskinned samurai, and the force is just a reskinned magic system combined with reskinned buddhism
The flip side of that though is just you end up with detective shows and spy shows and soap operas, in space, with a splash of sci-fi paint thrown over them. Been there, done that.
Jedi and Sith are a unique storytelling point, and there hasn't been enough about their conflict with each other, and by that I mean whole organization versus whole organization wise, and them manipulating the larger politics of the various systems and so forth to their cause, etc. Not just the singular Darth Vader versus Luke Skywalker fight kind of conflict.
The Sith as a large organization hasn't been seen in movies or tv, only in games.
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jedi are literally samurai with a splash of sci-fi paint
you're describing the overarching plot of the prequels
the rule of two kind of makes that impossible
I was thinking pre-rule of two, like in the MMO.
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if where you draw the line on what counts as integral to a narrative is that arbitrary, why not just toss jedi too?
Just because you declare it as arbitrary doesn't mean it's actually arbitrary.
If you ask most people on the street what is the most iconic thing about Star Wars, they would either tell you Force wielders, or Jedi/Sith.
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either you're defining star wars by the films, or you're picking and choosing what really "counts"
you're doing the latter
No, I've watched pretty much everything at this point, and have read the EU books to boot (really enjoy some of them).
And I remember the decades of TV news/videos and publication stories/articles about what makes Star Wars, Star Wars.
I'd feel confident if you put it up to a vote, that the Force and/or Jedi/Sith is the primary response to the question "What is Star Wars to you?". Everything else is just copying other stuff and slapping a sci-fi paint on it. Traveller TTRPG like.
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the eu is filled with stories that aren't about jedi or the force
so yeah, you're picking and choosing what counts based on your personal vibes
Disagree, and moving on. Have a good one.
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Why not just watch one of the many other options without Jedi?
The rule of two is hardly integral, anyways. There were 3 for most of the prequel trilogy time frame and Vader took on several apprentices between ep 3 and 4. It was 2 as far as I know during the OT but then the sequels brought it back to 3.
And Sideous adopted the rule of one (where he can train whoever he wants but not with the intent of replacing him because he planned on living forever using force ghost and clones so he'd always have a body) from the end of ep 1 onwards.
I just speak for myself, but star wars without force users just isn't that interesting to me.
then why not watch one of the many other options with jedi?
Hey, 8 tried to tell a different story. It's a story about how the legend of "Luke Skywalker" is overblown and doesn't do justice to the man himself or to anyone around him. It's a story about how war has a big negative effect on the rest of the world, even places far away from the war. It's a story about how sometimes the world doesn't work the way myths do, with awesome magic powers and heroic sacrifices. It's a story about how everyone is important, and the "great man" idea of history is false. Those are stories that Star Wars hasn't told before.
8 redeemed the mistakes of 5 and fixed Star Wars.
if it was a standalone movie, sure
but it wasn't a standalone movie
it was a sequel to a movie and basically just served to undo everything 7 did
why make a trilogy if you're just going to have the first two films cancel out? just make 1 film
Name one thing 8 undid from 7.
snoke as the overarching villain
wow that was difficult
So, you also maintain that 6 undid 5 by killing off the Emperor, right?
setting up a character to serve as a villain for three films then killing them off partway through the second is very clearly different than setting up a character to server as a villain for three films then killing them off at the end of the third film
by the logic you seem to be using, 9 also didn't undo anything 8 did, which is patently absurd
Snoke wasn't set up to serve as villain for three films. He was set up to serve for two films, same as the emperor. You're just salty that your fantheory didn't come true.
Well it didn't "undo" anything in 8, it just undercut and betrayed its core themes. That doesn't erase 8, it just spits in 8's face.
It's impossible for 8 to have undercut 7's core themes, because 7 doesn't have any.
if for some reason you believe it's impossible for a film to retcon things, why not just save us both some time by opening with that, rather than having this pointless little back and forth?
it's a really weird time to argue for death of the author when we're talking more or less specifically about directorial intent and we have the interviews from people involved
it's also kind of weird to argue for death of the author while also insisting the emperor was only established in 5, when he's mentioned multiple times in 4
i'm not sure i'm the salty one here
8 didn't do any retcons. A retcon would be "actually Snoke isn't the main villain, he's just a clone created by Palpatine." 8 was perfectly happy to play nice with all the facts established in 7, and then have Ben kill Snoke as the first dramatic climax of the movie. 8 gets to have two dramatic climaxes because Rian Johnson is a brilliant filmmaker.
by the logic you're using, that still wouldn't be a retcon, because it would've been the intention the entire time
i'm also stunned you think anything about "he turns the lightsaber to face his TRUE ENEMY" was well handled