this post was submitted on 26 Sep 2023
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Things have gotten better and progress has been made from times past, it just seems worse now because we have more access to information. We've come far, and have further to go!

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[–] [email protected] 212 points 11 months ago (12 children)

The poverty rate stuff is pure bs. The world bank just lowered the stated official poverty line without actually improving living conditions.

https://www.jasonhickel.org/blog/2019/2/3/pinker-and-global-poverty

[–] [email protected] 91 points 11 months ago (1 children)

As well as the average life span being skewed by those same infant mortality rates. People have been living long and now they're forced to retire later.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 11 months ago

Plus, while we have extended life, we haven't made progress with extended life care. So you might live 20 years longer, but those 20 years will be spent in your bed waiting for your nurse to clean your diaper.

[–] [email protected] 36 points 11 months ago (31 children)

besides this, China did a huge job on getting people out of poverty - if you like or not

[–] [email protected] 14 points 11 months ago (4 children)

Mass producing shit at inhuman factories with deaths by the millions. I guess you're not poor if you're just dead.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Technically correct. A dead person is neither rich nor poor.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 11 months ago

So that's what happened to the middle class.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago

The best kind of correct

[–] [email protected] 13 points 11 months ago (38 children)

Look at the statistics. I am not lying. You can complain, but that are facts.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago

If you look at the history of western countries industrializing it didn't look much better.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago

Life expectancy has also gone up. You’re lying through your fucking teeth.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago (3 children)
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[–] [email protected] 12 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

This writeup is a great argument, here's some highlights I thought were good:

I simply pointed out that we cannot ignore the fact that the period 1820 to circa 1950 was one of violent dispossession across much of the global South. If you have read colonial history, you will know colonizers had immense difficulty getting people to work on their mines and plantations. As it turns out, people tended to prefer their subsistence lifestyles, and wages were not high enough to induce them to leave. Colonizers had to coerce people into the labour market: imposing taxes, enclosing commons and constraining access to food, or just outright forcing people off their land.

Remember: $1.90 [chosen poverty line] is the equivalent of what that amount of money could buy in the US in 2011. The economist David Woodward once calculated that to live at this level (in an earlier base year) would be like 35 people trying to survive in Britain “on a single minimum wage, with no benefits of any kind, no gifts, borrowing, scavenging, begging or savings to draw on (since these are all included as ‘income’ in poverty calculations).” That goes beyond any definition of “extreme”. It is absurd. It is an insult to humanity.

From 1980 to 2000, the IMF and World Bank imposed structural adjustment programs that did exactly the opposite: slashing tariffs, subsidies, social spending and capital controls while reversing land reforms and privatizing public assets – all in the face of massive popular resistance. During this period, the number of people in poverty outside China increased by 1.3 billion. In fact, even the proportion of people living in poverty increased, from 62% to 68%.

But there is something else that needs to be said here. You and Gates like to invoke the poverty numbers to make claims about the legitimacy of the existing global economic system. You say the system is working for the poor, so people should stop complaining about it.

When it comes to assessing such a claim, it’s really neither absolute numbers nor proportions that matter. What matters, rather, is the extent of poverty vis-à-vis our capacity to end it. As I have pointed out before, our capacity to end poverty (e.g., the cost of ending poverty as a proportion of the income of the non-poor) has increased many times faster than the proportional poverty rate has decreased (to use your preferred measure). By this metric we are doing worse than ever before. Indeed, our civilization is regressing. Why? Because the vast majority of the yields of our global economy are being captured by the world’s rich.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago

"You literally have two nickels to rub together. You're fine."

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

It holds true no matter what poverty line you choose.

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