this post was submitted on 03 Mar 2024
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Almost certainly - but that is what I agreed to when I bought the TV.
Like I said in the post, I'd much prefer dumb TVs, but they I can't really find them anymore. Best I can do is buy a smart TV that'd won't let you do anything (including selecting inputs) until you connect it to the internet, agree to their horrible anti-consumer licensing agreement. Only then to open up a different smart device product that will still steal my data and force me to give up my legal right to a class action? The current system is scam.
Do you have any recommendations for dumb TVs?
As someone in pro AV, here's my recommendation for a dumb TV: A smart TV that you never connect to your wifi.
All that bloatware shit they install is what makes it cheap. At my job I can buy commercial displays (no crapware) at cost and it's still cheaper to buy a consumer one.
Unless IP control is absolutely mandatory for you, it's cheaper and easier to go consumer for displays
I'm pretty sure that you cannot use a roku-enabled device for any purpose until you agree to their terms of service, which just puts me back into the same boat.
Do you have any recommendations for actual dumb TVs?
Sceptre makes modern, affordable dumb TVs.
We found an answer! Thank you!
I've been searching online between comment responses looking for actually useful recommendations. It looks like Sceptre or LG are going to be good starting points. Between the two website, I'm leaning pretty heavily towards the Sceptre. I'm excited to here more from the person posting about the professional/commercial AV displays.
I have a sceptre, I love it. I got it on a black friday sale before covid, and it still works well. Some people have said theirs went crappy within a year or two, so check models and reviews that seem legitimate to figure out which ones are crappy.
Thanks for the heads up - will do!
EDIT: Out of an abundance of curiosity, what model do you have?
I'm not sure if this is right, but it's what's on the back of the tv. It's a sceptre version number QGTV83AC. There is also a UPC sticker on one side that has U650CV-UMRD8QGTV83AC.
Thanks!
I've owned multiple Sceptres and the only thing that ever broke for me was button related (on both the remotes and TV itself). You'd think buttons would be a solved problem, but I've owned three of those TVs because of the price (SmartTVs were not universal then).
That all being said, the displays themselves are mediocre and the speakers are weak and poor quality. The quality is probably right in line with the price, but if you're coming from a higher end TV, it will be noticeable. I always had to use speakers or a soundbar to get acceptable quality sound, the display you get used to pretty quickly.
Assuming Sceptre still makes dumb TVs by then, I'll probably switch back to them when mine either die or LG crosses some red lines.
Any TV that you just don’t connect to the internet at all, ever.
Hmm, yes, I agree! Totally agree on this. No argument. I'm curious though - what TV would that be? What TV can someone buy today that doesn't require an initial setup process that requires an agreement to certain terms and conditions prior to use?
Not trying to be hostile towards you in particular. I'm feeling frustrated with this answer because I am seeing it a lot (both online and in online searches right now), but I'm having some difficulty finding it actually useful advice. Many devices are setup from the factory to not allow use until agreeing to certain terms and conditions that must be agreed to before using the TV. I need to know which TVs - if any - do not require this. It is surprisingly difficult! I feel frustrated with this answer because it feels reductive & dismissive of the actual problem.
Again, nothing against you in particular. I'm just frustrated with this - seemingly reasonable but not actually applicable based on what I have been able to research online so far - answer.
I just bought a Roku smart TV and the first time I powered it on, it asked if I wanted to enable smart features by connecting to the Internet. I said no and it functions like a dumb TV now. There are a couple brands that still make dumb TVs but they are all fairly small and not great quality. Much better off researching which smart TVs can be easily disabled.
This is the point that I've been stuck on. There doesn't seem to be clear, easily available, documentation on which models those are. However, I have been able to find many ramble-ly "old man yells at cloud" forum & social media posts (You know, like this one!) when a model doesn't allow it.
Any of the ones I’ve tried require no additional interaction to change inputs and adjust video settings. If they’re not connected and there isn’t an open network to join, they can’t download updates or anything. They might try to get you to sign in or whatever but you can just back out of those windows and use it like a normal TV. This includes Vizio, Samsung, element, and LG TVs I’ve owned/used
I've yet to run across a smart TV that I couldn't just use as a dumb TV by NEVER CONNECTING IT TO WIFI. Literally NEVER connect it to WiFi. You will never have this issue. You don't need a list of models, because there isn't a TV that won't function as a TV if it's never connected to WiFi.
Do you understand now?
Show me one piece of technology in your life that didn't come with T&C that put you at a disadvantage against the manufacturer, I'll show you ten fairies, a unicorn, and the herald of darkness.
My grandmother has a Philips dumb TV that doesn't have any network connectivity and it still showed a click-through T&C. If you can't get something like that in your region, ship from the EU, they're still sold here.
My computer was built from pieces of other computers, to which I installed linux and never had to agree to anything. Now show me those ten fairies, the unicorn, and the herald of darkness please...
You agreed to a lot of stuff just by installing Linux and the userspace. Even the MIT license has a limitation of liability clause - if the maintainer published malicious code (like
node-ipcon NPM that would nuke the computer if it had a Russian IP), you'd have a difficult time bringing that to court.We just usually don't care about it because it's not as disruptive as a big corpo's legal goatse, and FOSS maintainers tend to be better people than corporate lawyers.
The terms of linux don't come into play unless I try to re-use some other licensed code to make a profit, and that would still fall under copyright law rather than any kind of terms&services clause. Installing a piece of software doesn't constitute an agreement unless there are clear terms given at the beginning of the installation (and even then it has been pretty questionable in court cases). There was nothing presented to me to agree to during the installation and I've never once been asked to agree to anything during the installation of any software on my computer. There's no need for something like this in most linux software other than the standard disclaimer that it comes with no warranty. Still not anything I had to click to agree to, it just happens to be on the websites for the distributions.
Even if you want to try and pretend that I somehow agreed so some nonsense conditions by installing linux, it still doesn't meet your conditions of putting myself at a disadvantage to the manufacturer. Surely you're not trying to suggest that my "disadvantage" is that I can't take a group to court for my own failure to use software which was freely given and distributed, and of which very little was even written by the distribution maintainers? That would be as absurd as claiming that I had to agree to an EULA before installing my operating system. Hell I don't even agree to collecting data about package management on my system.
Scrapyard PCs for the win!
(Written on a used dell with a replaced hard drive and a fedora install.)
Whew, that inter-continental shipping is going to be rough, but I've had to pay it before. Thanks for the advice!
Samsung, Sony, and LG all let you skip connecting to there Internet. I prefer Sony TVs because Samsung has stupid VESA mounting options but they're all good
You can try the display screens for menus and signs. They’re basically TVs without smart functions, aka dumb TVs.
Those often don't have a very good picture quality though.
Also without remote controls.
I did a factory reset on my Roku several months ago and it works more or less like it would normally. Can’t set themes, which is the only big lack, but most of the important settings are still available. I know I can change the inputs and settings and stuff on it, though, because the hdmi1 is classed to PlayStation and 4 to computer.
I just did a factory reset and never connected to the internet. You can’t disconnect it from the internet without a reset, tho, or you’ll get “not connected” messages frequently, which I assume is what you are talking about.
A non Roku Smart TV that you just don't connect to the internet at all, ever
I've had LGs for years (just got a new C3 OLED) and they don't require internet access to function. My current OLED isn't connected and works perfectly fine. I use a standalone Roku for streaming.
I think that I'm about to sold on LG TVs. Do you need to agree to any terms of service for initial setup? Additionally, do you have to navigate menus on startup to get to the streaming device? If so, that is ok, but very annoying if I can't set it up to start on a particular input on power up.
I did have to agree to the terms during setup. You do NOT have to navigate menus on startup. It remembers the last input and defaults there. You can then easily change the input via the remote if needed.
This is really good/useful info - thank you!
They also have a list of items you can and cannot agree to, instead of just 1. So agree to 1, and say no to the rest sort of deal. You can also set the TV to non-US and get a little less bullshit.
It never occurred to me that TVs might not do that.
LG have started sending some bullshit major updates to both of my TVs recently. The whole "home" interface is now sluggish and full of video heavy garbage I don't want to see. They are still better than some smart platforms (looking at you Vizio, Samsung, and Roku), but I am far less pleased with them than I used to be.
Buy a really large computer monitor
That would be a good idea if there wasn't a 100x difference in price for something actually tv size big.
Not for a dumb tv but I own a newer Vizio. I actually use it as a huge desktop monitor through HDMI. The actual tv itself has never been connected to the internet. You could connect a streaming stick (roku, amazon, google) if you wanted to. I stream everything from the net. Vizio has a horrible "free" streaming tv service that tracks you. But you can still use the actual tv in other ways if you don't connect it to the net. It will act as a dumb tv.
Until we have a federal privacy law that allows us to opt out of being tracked on every device, you have to "work around" the problems.
Tracking needs to be opt-in, not opt-out. Privacy needs to be the default on all products.
Agreed!
Look for computer monitors instead of a TV.