this post was submitted on 18 Jan 2024
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submitted 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
 

EDIT: since apparently a bunch of people woke up with the wrong foot this morning or forgot to check the group they’re in:

This is a joke. Do not steal or vandalize speed enforcement cameras (or anything else for that matter). That’s against the law and you will likely get arrested.

If you’re addicted to crack or any other drugs, please seek professional help.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (14 children)

Even better solution though: (re-) build the street at a school zone so that no driver more sane than the most insane Florida Man would not fathom driving any faster than 20 km/h, no speed cameras required.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Even better solution though: the street at a school zone that no driver more sane than the most insane Florida Man would not fathom driving any faster than 20 km/h, no speed cameras required.

What?

[–] [email protected] 21 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (16 children)

It's simple. If you design the road to be wide, straight, with wide, clearly marked lanes, clear sides and a smooth surface, people will naturally be inclined to drive faster. This is based on experiences with forgiving design. For motorways, this is fine. But for residential neighbourhoods and school zones, it's a bloodbath waiting to happen.

So out there, you do the exact opposite. Make the street so narrow that anything bigger than an average pickup truck barely fits in a lane. Make it out of brick and don't mark the centre of the road. Surround the street with shrubs and other obstacles, and stick it full of sharp chicanes.

This is the deliberate inverse of forgiving design, called traffic calming.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Make the street so narrow that anything bigger than an average pickup truck barely fits. Make it out of brick and don’t mark the centre of the road.

School buses are a thing.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

School busses do nothing to solve the problem of speeding in school zones.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

I specifically quoted the part about making the road in front of a school so narrow a pickup truck would have trouble.

If it's too narrow for a pickup truck, how are school busses supposed to function?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Then let me specify:

Wide enough for one pickup and no opposing traffic, but so narrow that two pickups are going to really have to negotiate to move around each other.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (22 children)

Schools have more than one bus and they have to pass each other. There are also school buses for the other nearby schools like the middle school and high school running at the same time even when school starts times are offset.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

They used to be. Now everyone drives their kids to school for reasons.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

The urban planning in many cities is so absurd and not meant for buses. This means school bus routes are absolute madness and can take hours to get everyone home

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 8 points 9 months ago (1 children)

My city has exactly one road designed like this. Fire trucks have no problem

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago (2 children)

I really want to see these cities. They have a dedicated grid of streets for cyclists, a different grid for fire trucks, a different grid for pedestrians, and a Kafkaesque nightmare of curves for cars. Cars that presumably often break down and the drivers are found later fleshless with teeth marks on their bones. Somehow 4 seperate roadway structures are imposed on a single city.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 9 months ago

Not an issue in Europe. Though granted the US would probably need to replace their fire trucks with sanely-sized ones. You also don't need to haul a big-ass ladder in a low-density area what's your plan use it to do a header into a suburban pool.

Regarding response time absence of gridlock will be more important than the last hundred metres on a residential street, consider investing in public transportation, walkable cities, and generally everything that abolishes owning and using a car being mandatory.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Hey, I live on a road like that. It's not even bricks, but good ol' cobblestone. The cars also share it with a tram.

There's a lot of pedestrians crossing. It's a residential area with shops in the ground floor of all the buildings.

There's multiple schools and kindergartens around, so they set the speed limit to 30km/h. Does that matter? No. People go 50-60 during the day and 70-80 at night. The only times that doesn't happen is when the cops set up a mobile speed camera.

The road is fairly straight, I'll give you that, but I guess they can't just demolish a few kilometres of 100yrs old houses to make to road a bit winding.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

I mean, if the ~~road~~ street takes up only part of the width of the right of way, you can do a lot with blocking off half the ~~road~~ street and alternating which side every few dozen metres. No demolition required.

Upon closer inspection, what you just described is a street, not a road.

Also, even with a narrower street, with strategically placed obstacles, you can convince drivers to zig-zag and reduce their speed that way.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I didn't know there was a difference, I've been using them synonymously.

With the proposed changes traffic would have to wait constantly to let the other side pass. You would not only limit speed, but als throughput. If you just go slower because of speed cameras, the amount of traffic can stay the same.

There's a lot of cars and lorries going through here. Sometimes a road/street that has a lot of traffic just goes through a fairly residential area and we kind of have to live with the fact.

And if you think that's bad city planning call the eighteen hundreds and complain to these people.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

There's a difference. A road is meant to be a fast connection between points at the ends. This calls for forgiving design and higher speeds.
Meanwhile, a street is meant to be for allowing access to the nearby land. That warrants lower speeds, and the expectation that anyone can be on any of the sides as they see necessary. A street should function less like a vehicle artery, and more like an outdoor room.

Notice that these are incompatible uses. North American traffic engineers clearly didn't, allowing main streets to become the main thoroughfare, i.e. the main roads through an area as well. This produces the most dangerous type of transportation infrastructure: the stroad. Which is both meant to be a fast connection AND access to the nearby land, and in doing so fails at both.

If this stretch of car infrastructure you were discussing is supposed to be a street, vehicle throughput should probably be one of the last priorities, and vehicles are better off on a road a few blocks over.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (3 children)

nah fuck brick roads. the rest sure. not brick. dangerous for panick braking (less traction), wears iunt tires and suspension prematurely

[–] [email protected] 8 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Problems that are all reduced, eliminated or rendered irrelevant altogether if traffic moves slowly, which it probably does, thanks to all the other modifications.

Plus, they add a ton of road noise inside the vehicle, further increasing the level of discomfort at higher speeds, contributing to a lower design speed.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

Do you work for IBM on Lotus Notes?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

Main roads shouldn't be brick, but local residential streets certainly should. The speed limit should be 30 km/h or less anyway, and in a well-designed road network they should only make up a tiny portion of your overall drive, so wearing tyres and suspension isn't an issue.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

Panic braking from 20 km/h isn't going to be impeded by a brick surface, even wet brick.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 9 months ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago

Here is an alternative Piped link(s):

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Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

Here is an alternative Piped link(s):

Another relevant Not Just Bikes

Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.

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