abraxas

The real-real issue is how many people don't bloody understand what AI/ML are, but are making huge decisions about where they are appropriate to use.

I can't count how many times I've heard "Let's add AI to this page!" was requested from non-tech execs in the last year, not knowing what does or doesn't work. Our most successful analytical report runs a simple 10-rule heuristic and nobody is the wiser.

So yeah, people trying to inject AI into hiring/firing. The people who did inject AI into predicting criminality. It all boils down to negligence, ignorance of your tools.

So I should discard my own far-left views because I see a far-right group with that one same bullet point?

Let's try it on you. Here's some info about growth of veganism in the alt-right. Ready to support small time ranchers yet?

Oh awesome me too! How long have you been vegan? :)

Never. I eat the deer that has to die due to overpopulation. Flip-side, I'd say anyone who lets that meat rot is the one that isn't an animal lover (and that includes vegans).

This whole "you can't be an animal lover if you're not a vegan" tripe is bullshit. But worse than being bullshit, you automatically lose whoever you were talking to from ever taking your side seriously even if you actually have good points.

Yeah I’ll be honest, i thought exactly the same as you about PETA before going vegan. But if you’re vegan, you’re intent on reducing the suffering of animals right?

I am not an anti-natalist. I am not willing to euthanize animals for some great aggregate goal. As an animal lover, both of those end goals of PETA disgust me. And I'm far from alone. The **only ** way to reduce animal suffering is to wipe them all out and re-engineer their natural habitats. I oppose that. I'm ok with a world where animals (including humans) suffer, but that we work to better things. We had a decent balance once, then it went to shit. I'm not about making it go MORE to shit.

So it’s not too much of a leap to imagine a world where the people with the most money and the most to lose have orchestrated an incredibly effective smear campaign.

You seem to be ignoring, or forgetting, my points. Every complaint I have presented is a first-party complaint against PETA by people who are not part of a smear campaign. So if you're asking if I'm willing to believe the small animal shelter run by a good friend of mine is part of an "incredibly effective smear campaign", I'm going to laugh you out the door.

That kind of nonsense reminds me of the people who used to cry about "the gay agenda". I'm sorry.

I’m giving you the benefit of doubt and assuming you’re here in good faith

I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt of the same, but your last post has made it difficult. Requiring me to be a vegan to be an animal lover (when I mentioned being around nature-worshippers, it should have been obvious). Implying, perhaps unintentionally, that people I know are part of some giant smear campaign. No.

you must understand the commodification of sentient beings is absolutely unnecessary in 2023

What does anything have to do with mass-euthanasia? Are you actually "merciful depopulation"? That is very different from hunters culling overpopulated areas.

Annnnnd you just went full PETA on me.

I'm a huge animal lover, and have spent most of my life around literal nature worshippers. And I can't think of one who could pull that "Dogs are objects in our society" PETA rhetoric with a straight face.

When I was a teenager, a bunch of my friends online were tossing that around. I found a trojan and started sending it around as cupholder.exe but making it look like I wasn't the one who sent it... and just immediately logged in and opened their CD tray. Then started fucking with their system in silly ways.

Ahh the good old days when even malware wasn't that bad. Or maybe I was just a really stupid kid. At least I password-locked the trojan and removed it when I left.

AKS is not just about pedigree dogs. Having personal involvement with the AKC rescue network, I don't really care what the BBC might have said about them when the topic is PETA. AKC is ethically better positioned than PETA wrt rescue animals, full stop.

Also, I don't see why I should. You listed 100 good things PETA did. I can probably pick my worst enemy and find a list of good things they did.

WHY are you finishing like this with a rant you started with me pointing to the experiences of people who run rescues? You sound like a talking head. No, ALL of the criticism of PETA I read on reddit come from individuals who hate PETA for their own valid reasons.

It's also as often false as it is true. There is still such a massive demand for rescue dogs that people will pay a premium for them. There are foster households that are far from overfull. There are high-risk dog ranches that have room for more aggressive dogs, even human aggressive dogs.

Yes, there are times where you just cannot logicially find a match for a rescue. But there are also times where they put down a pet just miles away from someone who would foster or adopt them.

Unwanted animal euthanization rate in the US is arguably at an all-time low. And yet, PETA's euthanization rate is still high, high enough that groups like the AKC are openly criticizing them for it.

What about the other side of the coin. People who run shelters and rescues who have their own (from experience) criticisms about PETA? I remember a friend of mine who ran a rescue and had to arrange night transportation for a tentatively homed animal because the PETA shelter was going to euthanize in the morning. She was fucking pissed at them. Oh, and they wouldn't stay open late for her to pick the dog up, and they wouldn't let her pick the dog up first thing in the morning when they opened.

In fact, I've had the opportunity to know a lot of people involved in volunteering/running shelters, and they are as disgusted at PETA as apparently the meat industry is. Accusations of laziness, disinterest in the well-being of individual animals, etc. I remember one of the people dealing with them tell me "I think they'd euthenize a cow to prevent me from buying a bottle of its milk".

Also, to point to the Chihuahua story (since I care about this one). Nobody who claims to care about animal welfare should be euthanizing animals on pickup because they were asked to by someone that isn't their owner. My fucking VET won't even euthanize a healthy dog, and will insist on rehoming it if the owner wants to get rid of it. As someone who has helped pick up stray animals to transport to a shelter, the disposition of the person requesting the pickup is always ignored. No, we will not put down that cat who had kittens in your wall. But we will take it away.

EDIT: Also, what about the AKC? People forget that it's not just the meat industry, but animal rescue and animal rights groups, that criticize PETA.

I wouldn't say their opposition is always bad faith neo-nazis, but the anti-vegan/anti-PETA movement definitely has a few bad seeds they should be burning out. There is no reason to combine ethical meat-eating with neoconservativism. It's bloody stupid.

An alt-right neonazi forum/organization/etc. Putting it to reddit context is for two reasons. First, because we're all pissed at reddit's recent behavior. But second because Spez has been accused (with evidence) of being sorta Elon-like in his courting of the alt-right, and possibly having extreme right leanings himself.

That's a symptom of too much caffeine...

I know, I have it.