this post was submitted on 09 Nov 2023
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The poll found 50% of Democrats approve of how Biden has navigated the conflict while 46% disapprove — and the two groups diverge substantially in their views of U.S. support for Israel. Biden’s support on the issue among Democrats is down slightly from August, as an AP-NORC poll conducted then found that 57% of Democrats approved of his handling of the conflict and 40% disapproved.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I said this a week ago and got downvoted to hell, but I'll say it again: this issue will fuck him next November

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If so, that’s fucking ridiculous. Jesus fucking Christ democracy will die because Joe Biden didn’t force Israel to stop their genocide and only told them to stop instead????

Fuck this goddamn retarded existence just fucking kill me already Jesus fucking Christ

FUCK THIS GODDAMN PLANET

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Tankies aren't humans. They hated voting for Biden the first time but did so because Trump was the literal devil. Now Hassan Piker has riled up his masses of dumbasses to completely turn on what is the best president we had since Obama (I'm only speaking economically, so shut up).

Please vote. No matter what anyone tells you, vote. Get your idiot friends to vote. Remind them of what's at stake.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Tankies aren’t humans.

What a strange moment to make this statement.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Meh I use Tankies as a term for the "far right" of the left.

Might not be the most accurate term but these Israel hating leftists are almost always Tankies. But the rest of the comment is pretty clear and I'm glad you were able to focus on something benign. Typical tankie.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Benign, maybe in an irrelevant way? But certainly not benign by its content though, right?

I just found it to be a strange usage because presumably the criticism being cast against Israel is for their judicious use of force against unarmed civilians, and as far as I know 'tankie' was originally used to describe people in support of the state's judicious use of force against unarmed civilians.

I would have thought the word would have been more appropriately used to describe Zionists in this situation, but I wouldn't pretend to know.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Hamas attacked innocent civilians on the 7th. Didn't see any lefties coming out to denounce any of it

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Its possible, but how smooth brained would someone have to be to vote for Trump over this?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Many just won't vote.

Which is still absolutely absurd, because any Democrat who doesn't vote for Biden is implicitly granting his Republican opponent a vote. This opponent may be Trump, but even if it isn't, it's still a Republican whose position on Israel and the conflict will make Biden's response look measured.

Many people are angered by Biden's response, but for pro-Palestinian supporters it's cutting off your nose to spite your face to not vote this cycle for Biden. You're actively allowing an even worse option.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It's especially hurting him with the demographic he's always struggled with:

Majorities of Democrats younger than 45 (65%) and nonwhite Democrats (58%) say they disapprove of Biden’s handling of the conflict. Most Democrats 45 and older (67%) and white Democrats (62%) say they approve.

"Knowing that our tax money could be paying for the weapons that are murdering children by the thousands over there, it’s getting harder to be supportive of our president and our country in general,” said Brie Williamson, a 34-year-old Illinois resident. Williamson said she “couldn’t see voting for a Republican” but would consider other options next year.

And being forced to pick between this and trump will depress turnout, and depressed turnout is how Republicans become presidents.

And I know Biden's supporters will say "he's still better than trump" and that's true. But it doesn't change the fact that this is a fucked up situation where voters do t have a say in this issue because the only two options for president both support this genocide.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

no. running shit candidates is how they lose. no one is entitled to someones vote or support.

dnc wants to win? then look at what your base wants. their approach has always been “you take what we give you” and that resulted in donald fucking trump.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

If a moderate dem wins, they win.

If a Republican wins, moderates get to be even more moderate and claim they have to, knowing whoever they run next time will probably win just because they're not a Republican.

The only way moderates lose, is if a progressive manages to win. Because then they lose the main reason lots of people vote Dem: anything is better than a Republican.

That's why they fight progressives harder than Republicans. Republicans aren't their enemy, they're the rationale that lets moderates in 2023 act like Republicans in 1980 and still win elections

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

We could have had Bernie, and sure, he'd be 83 in 2024 (Biden will be 81), but at least he had the idea to use Israel funding as leverage to get Netanyahu to calm the fuck down.

Instead, we get Biden, who does seem to have a good economic policy, but he was all too eager to jump to a known war-crime-committer's defense.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Ah America. Where we have the great options of genocidal maniac or other genocidal maniac. You see, we're better, because we have the freedom to choose!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

And we can't vote for anyone else, or the wrong lizard might win!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Ah America, you offer the same choice as France and the UK.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It seemed to me (looking in from the outside) that he merely kept on doing what the US had always done.

Apparently it's the public opinion that has changed, while the diplomacy plodded on in it's usual well-travelled trail.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Who knew that Millennials would hate casual genocide?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I have a very strong don't blow up kids policy, that doesn't care what religion or political party you subscribe to or even race. If you do blow up kids, we feel strongly that you should just fuck right off and we should do whatever we can to stop those killing kids.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

"The terrorists are using schools as shields though!"

Guess you shouldn't use artillery strikes and bombing runs then.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

"The terrorists are using schools as shields though!"

"Oh damn that's a genius strategy. Better just give up every military advantage I have and send in my soldiers to be ambushed."

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Is it still called an ambush if you know they are there?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So what did you do to stop the US killing kids in Iraq and Afghanistan?

An estimated civilian death toll in the hundreds of thousands, and millions displaced.

What are your plans to prevent or oppose the mass deportation of millions of those Afghan refugees as just announced by Pakistan?

There's just a bit of morbid irony in anyone from the US acting like they are on a high moral horse here when their own country has exported an order of magnitude more harm around the world largely to crickets within the country, particularly in comparison to the opposition to something like the Vietnam war.

The US is still currently active in its bombing and involvement in Syria. Thousands of civilians killed by coalition forces, hundreds of thousands fled the country as a result of the conflict. Have you even done anything about that one?

It's just wild when civilians in the US get riled up by the foreign policy conflict of the week, take their sides typically along partisan lines, and pat themselves on the back for taking their stand. "We'll hold our politicians accountable." Meanwhile the actual joint military and intelligence branches have their hands in a half dozen conflicts around the world and are directly responsible for much greater harm that's just far less publicized in Western media because of press relations forged in the wake of Vietnam, and stories like this don't get picked up past the investigative groups researching them.

The US routinely blows up kids and has a long history of refusing to submit itself to international courts.

But no, Americans don't focus on changing the policy and scope of their own government's actions (the thing they in theory have greater influence over). They just get worked up over the actions of other governments allied with the US - and then either are upset about funding Ukraine if Republican or upset about funding Israel if Democrat. At least this week. I'm sure in a few months we'll have moved on to a new Kony 2012 people are "very upset about and not going to forget about until something is done."

(Seriously, the idea the current events will have any real impact on an election a year from now is laughable.)

I'd even be willing to bet at least 95% of all the Americans complaining about foreign governments bombing things couldn't even point on a map to all the places that their own government has bombed children in just the past decade.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Whataboutism or whataboutery (as in "what about…?") denotes in a pejorative sense a procedure in which a critical question or argument is not answered or discussed, but retorted with a critical counter-question which expresses a counter-accusation. From a logical and argumentative point of view it is considered a variant of the tu-quoque pattern (Latin 'you too', term for a counter-accusation), which is a subtype of the ad-hominem argument.[1][2][3][4]

The communication intent is often to distract from the content of a topic (red herring). The goal may also be to question the justification for criticism and the legitimacy, integrity, and fairness of the critic, which can take on the character of discrediting the criticism, which may or may not be justified. Common accusations include double standards, and hypocrisy, but it can also be used to relativize criticism of one's own viewpoints or behaviors. (A: "Long-term unemployment often means poverty in Germany." B: "And what about the starving in Africa and Asia?").[5] Related manipulation and propaganda techniques in the sense of rhetorical evasion of the topic are the change of topic and false balance (bothsidesism).[6]

Some commentators have defended the usage of whataboutism and tu quoque in certain contexts. Whataboutism can provide necessary context into whether or not a particular line of critique is relevant or fair, and behavior that may be imperfect by international standards may be appropriate in a given geopolitical neighborhood.[7] Accusing an interlocutor of whataboutism can also in itself be manipulative and serve the motive of discrediting, as critical talking points can be used selectively and purposefully even as the starting point of the conversation (cf. agenda setting, framing, framing effect, priming, cherry picking). The deviation from them can then be branded as whataboutism.[citation needed]

Both whataboutism and the accusation of it are forms of strategic framing and have a framing effect.[8]

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The goal may also be to question the justification for criticism and the legitimacy, integrity, and fairness of the critic, which can take on the character of discrediting the criticism, which may or may not be justified.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

So you are qualified to discount anyone related to a subject, that you don't have any access to their research or the education to know about it? I certainly don't, so I just listen to what they say and not attack them or who they are related to.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

It’s Biden vs trump, and there’s zero chance I’m voting for a waste-of-carbon republican traitor. Now or at any time in the future. I don’t like our stance on Israel/Palestine, but that is immaterial to the choice I must make.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

you could vote for literally anyone else.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Yes, and I could also shoot myself in the dick.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

vote for a genocidal politician. what do i care: 1/3 of america has already decided they're going to.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

If it's a choice between one geriatric who endorses genocide and another geriatric who endorses genocide, why should I be voting for either?

I still haven't decided but atm I'm leaning towards 3rd party

This "lesser evil" thing is smoke and mirrors.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Well one endorses genocide, the other wants to enable and cause genocide in our own country. I'd prefer my existence to not be criminalized.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

what, are you gay or trans or something? newsflash

you have it 1000x better than the tens of thousands of palestinians getting mutilated and killed. i don't see tens of thousands of gays being mutilated.

you even have it 100x better than the millions of illegals and asylum seekers in this country, of which both candidates flashes their wrinkly middle fingers to

you lose credibility when you exaggerate like this. yes, gays and trans should be treated better. yes, the republicans are more hostile than the dems. but it's not genocide, not even close. if you care so much about genocide you in theory should not be voting for someone who is actually endorsing genocide

first they came for the jews, and i did speak cause i was not a jew... etc

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Unfortunately when you have to pick between two lesser evils, even deciding not to choose is a lesser evil. Inaction can sometimes lead to the greatest evil.

Refusing to make a decision doesn't absolve you of culpability for the consequences.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Incorrect. The culpability lies with the moronic corrupt DNC and Democratic party for allowing Biden to run again. He is not electable, not coherent, and barely a hold your nose better choice than Trump.

The same assholes who cheated and broken their rules to put Hillary on the ballot are now forcing Biden to appear for some unknowable reason.

The lesser evil choice was forced by these people.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Frame it however you want, you're not even wrong. It still remains true that, if elected, Trump is going to try to end democracy and replace it with a fascist dictatorship. Biden is Not going to do that.

That's literally it, that's the only relevant factor to consider when deciding if you're going to vote for Biden. I hate him as much as everyone else, but I don't hate Biden more than I hate the idea of getting put in a camp for being trans at some point down the line, and if you do you're shortsighted and you value your ability to feel Morally Pure over actually doing anything.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Biden is Not going to do that

the modern GOP is a death cult. the modern democrats are a corporate theocracy

choose between psuedo-religious fascism or fascism that lets you wear a little rainbow pin on your shirt

we're headed towards fascism either way. look at europe, already censoring protests. look at our American websites like reddit and twitter, banning and silencing pro-palestinian accounts. they're using the techniques they learned during COVID to "fight misinformation". You cannot stray far from The Narrative

the scope of the information you will receive will continue to get smaller and smaller and more and more people are getting filtered into echo chambers

we need to wake up before it's too late, the noose is tightening. a modern fascist state with the surveillance technology that we have (we can even read minds now) is not going to be pretty. add in an economic crisis, another world war.. it's the 1930s all over again baby.

i wish orwell was around to see it

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

Refusing to make a decision doesn’t absolve you of culpability for the consequences

in deontological ethics, the ethics are in the action itself. ontological ethics imply that the ends may justify the means, and that is not something most people will sign.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

When voting between two parties that support genocide the only moral option is not to vote.

Fuck the stupid lesser evil thing. You are choosing and supporting genocide the moment you vote for it

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

You’re supporting genocide simply by paying your taxes. Grow the fuck up.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

One is a choice, the other is not. Read a damn book. Lol /s

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If you're in the US, with a two party system, not voting for the less evil is actively enabling the greater evil.

You think Trump or any GOP candidate wouldn't do the same? Or worse? They're certainly not going to do anything better than Biden.

Voting on principles is for the Primaries. Try and get the best candidate possible that you actively believe in into the race. Election Day however is when it's time to put your adult pants on, accept the world is messy, and vote for the least worse option possible, because otherwise you're just abetting the worst option.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You guys are just trolley probleming but you can add a third rails that says "if enough people pull this lever nobody dies".

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You have roughly equal amounts of people pulling the lever in the "kill one person" direction and the "kill many people" direction.

The only people interested in pulling a lever that adds a third rail are the "kill one person" crowd. The moment enough of them let go, the lever goes in the "kill many people" direction because that crowd has no interest in a third rail, they quite like the "kill many people" option. You'll never get enough people to join the third option from both crowds simultaneously. No third party has seen any real form of success in nearly 200 years within the current system. Changing the system is necessary but taking out hands off the lever is a disaster.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

You genuinely think Biden pulled back the israel support? There would be no difference between him and Trump.

You're never gonna change anything if you're not willing to take your hands off a kill lever.

Also you are actively pulling the kill lever instead of the peace lever by voting for the "lesser evil" it's because of this that a third party isn't taking off.